The Danger of Calling Evil Good - Assassinations and Murders

[David]

Do you see the Lie of “Peace” That’s Destroying America? In light of all that is going on in our world right now, we must ask ourselves the difficult question, “What kind of peace are we pursuing?” The Bible is clear on this: silence in the face of sin is not peace, it is disobedience. “Woe to those who call evil good and good evil” (Isaiah 5:20). If Christians remain silent and cover up sin, evil will be normalized, and truth will be treated like the problem.

God did not call us to stand on the sidelines and be neutral. He commands, “Have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them” (Ephesians 5:11). Silence is not neutrality, it is compromise. Ezekiel was told if he failed to warn the wicked, their blood would be on his hands (Ezekiel 3:18). The same principle holds true for us today. A “peace” that is based on avoiding offense is not biblical peace. In fact, God rails against that type of false comfort: “They have healed the wound of my people lightly, saying, ‘Peace, peace,’ when there is no peace” (Jeremiah 6:14). Covering sin never heals, it kills. And the death we are witnessing all around us today is exactly what results from covering sin.

At the heart of the matter, we must ask: will we fear man or fear God? Many believers fear being labeled “unloving” if they declare the truth of Scripture. But if that is our fear, we have already been warned by Jesus: “You will be hated by all for my name’s sake, but the one who endures to the end will be saved” (Matthew 10:22). Faithfulness to Christ has never made the world applaud us. Proverbs 29: 25 says, “The fear of man lays a snare, but whoever trusts in the LORD is safe.” When Christians embrace silence to avoid rejection, they are ensnared by the world instead of obeying Jude 3 and contending “for the faith.”

This is where America has come today. Right and wrong are blurred together. Sin is being celebrated in the open. A cultural movement is working hard to silence God’s truth and redefine morality. And because too many Christians are quiet, darkness is spreading like wildfire unchecked. Paul warned that there would come a time when people “will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions” (2 Timothy 4:3). That time is not coming, it has already arrived. Isaiah also prophesied this, “Truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter” (Isaiah 59:14). The result is chaos and corruption.

But Scripture also says, “Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a reproach to any people” (Proverbs 14:34). This is not just political, this is spiritual. When truth is silenced, sin rushes in to fill the vacuum. Jesus told His followers, “You are the light of the world… let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father in heaven” (Matthew 5:14–16). The answer is not retreat, it is bold witness.

Isaiah 30: 10 says of our culture, “They say to the seers, ‘Do not see,’ and to the prophets, ‘Do not prophesy to us what is right; speak to us smooth things, prophesy illusions.’” The world wants comfort, not conviction. And sadly, too many Christians comply with that to avoid conflict. But silence is not love. “Love does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth” (1 Corinthians 13:6). That is why Paul instructs us to “speak the truth in love” (Ephesians 4:15).

The dividing line is this: if peace means remaining silent in the face of sin, it is false peace. If peace flows from speaking the truth, it is the peace of Christ. True love warns of danger. True love is not shaken from standing firm on God’s Word. And true love points people to Jesus. That may not earn applause from the world, but it will keep the church faithful to her Lord.

 

[Mason]

If we want to be a servant of Jesus we cannot live to please men. “For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.” (Galatians 1:10).
“Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.” (Acts 5:29).

Jesus said, “Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.” (Luke 6:26).

Those following Jesus will be accused of doing evil.
“But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.” (1 Peter 3:15-16).
“For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries: Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:” (1 Peter 4:3-4).

Those who do works of righteousness will be hated by the world.
“Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous. Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.” (1 John 3:12-13).

There is a difference between those who do righteousness and those who sin. There is no such thing as a righteous sinner those are mutually exclusive.
“And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:5-10)

Those who are born of God cannot sin.“We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.” (1 John 5:18).
“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” (1 John 3:9).

What does it mean to be born of God?
“Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.” (1 John 5:1)
"Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.” (1 John 4:7-8)

 

[bobinfaith]

The title of this OP The Danger of Calling Evil Good - Assassinations and Murders is an issue with me today.

David, you wrote, "Do you see the Lie of “Peace” That’s Destroying America? In light of all that is going on in our world right now, we must ask ourselves the difficult question, “What kind of peace are we pursuing?” The Bible is clear on this: silence in the face of sin is not peace, it is disobedience. “Woe to those who call evil good and good evil” (Isaiah 5:20). If Christians remain silent and cover up sin, evil will be normalized, and truth will be treated like the problem."

Years ago when I was in the thick of our young marriage, job career and young ministry I had other issues of that time on my mind. To me that was normal when we were young people.

Today I'm battling different issues especially here in America. I'm not 100% at peace because of this. I would love to speak face to face with every world stage representative, minister and celebrity instead of being silent. I realize this is an impossibility with most representatives. My chances are better with local reps whether a politician, minister or celebrity.

Many have excelled in their endeavors and careers but have lost their moral conscious. What troubles me are the representatives who outright lie, dance around direct honest questions regarding the problems in our country and still receive a paycheck, as long as they can take it to the bank with little or no "reaching out" to the suffering.

Still, the amoral disposition remains.

I respect your presenting Scriptures with exhortations that I can receive along with God's guidance. That alone sustains my peace but I still have to act (doing right in His sight) instead of relying on my internal frustration.

I can still do my part by following what Christ teaches we're faced with adversity that compromises our peace.

God bless you, brothers.

Bob

 

[David]

If we want to be a servant of Jesus we cannot live to please men. “For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.” (Galatians 1:10).
“Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.” (Acts 5:29).

Jesus said, “Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.” (Luke 6:26).

Those following Jesus will be accused of doing evil.
“But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.” (1 Peter 3:15-16).
“For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries: Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:” (1 Peter 4:3-4).

Those who do works of righteousness will be hated by the world.
“Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous. Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.” (1 John 3:12-13).

There is a difference between those who do righteousness and those who sin. There is no such thing as a righteous sinner those are mutually exclusive.
“And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:5-10)

Those who are born of God cannot sin.“We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.” (1 John 5:18).
“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” (1 John 3:9).

What does it mean to be born of God?
“Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.” (1 John 5:1)
"Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.” (1 John 4:7-8)

You’re right. We can’t follow Jesus and make pleasing people our goal. Sometimes speaking the truth will bring criticism, but that doesn’t mean we should remain silent when God’s Word tells us something is wrong. I also appreciate that you included 1 Peter 3:15-16. We need to be ready to give an answer with meekness and respect, even when others speak against us.

I do want to ask about your statement that those born of God cannot sin. John also wrote, “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us” (1 John 1:8). He then said, “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous” (1 John 2:1).

John isn’t giving us an excuse to live in sin. He is clear that those who belong to God are to walk in righteousness. But he also addresses believers who sin and points them to Jesus as their advocate. How do you understand those verses alongside what John says in 1 John 3:9 and 5:18?

 

[David]

The title of this OP The Danger of Calling Evil Good - Assassinations and Murders is an issue with me today.

David, you wrote, "Do you see the Lie of “Peace” That’s Destroying America? In light of all that is going on in our world right now, we must ask ourselves the difficult question, “What kind of peace are we pursuing?” The Bible is clear on this: silence in the face of sin is not peace, it is disobedience. “Woe to those who call evil good and good evil” (Isaiah 5:20). If Christians remain silent and cover up sin, evil will be normalized, and truth will be treated like the problem."

Years ago when I was in the thick of our young marriage, job career and young ministry I had other issues of that time on my mind. To me that was normal when we were young people.

Today I'm battling different issues especially here in America. I'm not 100% at peace because of this. I would love to speak face to face with every world stage representative, minister and celebrity instead of being silent. I realize this is an impossibility with most representatives. My chances are better with local reps whether a politician, minister or celebrity.

Many have excelled in their endeavors and careers but have lost their moral conscious. What troubles me are the representatives who outright lie, dance around direct honest questions regarding the problems in our country and still receive a paycheck, as long as they can take it to the bank with little or no "reaching out" to the suffering.

Still, the amoral disposition remains.

I respect your presenting Scriptures with exhortations that I can receive along with God's guidance. That alone sustains my peace but I still have to act (doing right in His sight) instead of relying on my internal frustration.

I can still do my part by following what Christ teaches we're faced with adversity that compromises our peace.

God bless you, brothers.

Bob

I understand what you mean. It can be frustrating to see people in positions of authority avoid honest questions while so many people are hurting. I’ve felt that frustration too.

I appreciate what you said about doing what is right instead of letting that frustration take over. We may not be able to reach every leader, but we can still speak the truth, pray for those in authority, and help the people God puts in our path.

Philippians 4:6-7 is a good reminder to bring our concerns to the Lord in prayer and trust Him to guard our hearts and minds with His peace. God bless you too, brother.

 

[Mason]

David,
For 1 John 1:8, that is about who we are before righteousness. “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.” (Romans 3:23-26).

But if we confess our sins, God forgives us and cleanses us from all unrighteousness.
“But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:7-9).

And 1 John 2:1-2 is what it says,
“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.” (1 John 2:1-2).

 

[bobinfaith]

I understand what you mean. It can be frustrating to see people in positions of authority avoid honest questions while so many people are hurting. I’ve felt that frustration too. I appreciate what you said about doing what is right instead of letting that frustration take over. We may not be able to reach every leader, but we can still speak the truth, pray for those in authority, and help the people God puts in our path. Philippians 4:6-7 is a good reminder to bring our concerns to the Lord in prayer and trust Him to guard our hearts and minds with His peace. God bless you too, brother.

For 1 John 1:8, that is about who we are before righteousness. “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.” (Romans 3:23-26).

But if we confess our sins, God forgives us and cleanses us from all unrighteousness.
“But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:7-9).

And 1 John 2:1-2 is what it says,
“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.” (1 John 2:1-2).

Hello David and Mason;

I appreciate you guys allowing me to open up (vent) followed with Scripture.

Mason, as we get to know each other here at BTF, one of the ways that I fellowship is when someone shares Scripture with me, I take that and dig in deeper and learn what God is saying. This helps me align with whoever initiates or adds on to the topic.

Thank you, guys, God bless you.

Bob

 

[Mason]

Bob, I noticed that I have been sharing scriptures with you. Praise the Lord! It's good to have this fellowship at BTF. Sharing scripture, learning together, praying together and for one another.

God is good!

 

[Yesua888]

Do you see the Lie of “Peace” That’s Destroying America? In light of all that is going on in our world right now, we must ask ourselves the difficult question, “What kind of peace are we pursuing?” The Bible is clear on this: silence in the face of sin is not peace, it is disobedience. “Woe to those who call evil good and good evil” (Isaiah 5:20). If Christians remain silent and cover up sin, evil will be normalized, and truth will be treated like the problem.

Thank you David ... this is exactly what is happening Today ... everything is upside down and back to front ...
God's law is plain and simple ... the "law" of the enemy is confusing, corrupt, and makes no sense.
This should be how we can tell the difference!
God's Law is Written and never changes ...

 

[Yesua888]

If we want to be a servant of Jesus we cannot live to please men. “For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.” (Galatians 1:10).
“Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.” (Acts 5:29).

Jesus said, “Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.” (Luke 6:26).

Those following Jesus will be accused of doing evil.
“But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.” (1 Peter 3:15-16).
“For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries: Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:” (1 Peter 4:3-4).

Those who do works of righteousness will be hated by the world.
“Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous. Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.” (1 John 3:12-13).

There is a difference between those who do righteousness and those who sin. There is no such thing as a righteous sinner those are mutually exclusive.
“And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:5-10)

Those who are born of God cannot sin.“We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.” (1 John 5:18).
“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” (1 John 3:9).

What does it mean to be born of God?
“Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.” (1 John 5:1)
"Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.” (1 John 4:7-8)

Hi Mason,
You post some interesting verses, thank you : )
However, I wish to add something more on "Those who are born of God cannot sin":
The phrase "those who are born of God cannot sin" refers to 1 John 3:9, which states that believers do not habitually or willfully practice sin because God’s seed (the Holy Spirit or divine nature) remains in them.

• Not Sinless Perfection: Theologically, this does not mean believers are incapable of occasional sin; rather, it means they cannot continue in a lifestyle of unrepentant sin.
• Changed Nature: Being "born of God" imparts a new nature that desires righteousness and rejects deliberate, habitual sinning.
• Scriptural Context: Similar passages like 1 John 3:6 and 1 John 5:18 emphasize that while believers may stumble, they do not make sin their practice or master.

In summary, the verse describes a moral impossibility of living in continuous, unrepentant sin, not an absolute inability to commit individual acts of sin.

 

[bobinfaith]

Thank you David ... this is exactly what is happening Today ... everything is upside down and back to front ...
God's law is plain and simple ... the "law" of the enemy is confusing, corrupt, and makes no sense.
This should be how we can tell the difference!
God's Law is Written and never changes ...

Hello Yesua888;

My wife and I were just discussing what's happening in France, Spain, Italy and England. These are countries with rich histories and have survived tumultuous times. We took a moment to let this all sink in.

How do we minister God's law over what's happening there today with the current rioting?

God bless you, Linda.

Bob

 

[Yesua888]

Hello Yesua888;

My wife and I were just discussing what's happening in France, Spain, Italy and England. These are countries with rich histories and have survived tumultuous times. We took a moment to let this all sink in.

How do we minister God's law over what's happening there today with the current rioting?

God bless you, Linda.

Bob

Hi Bob,
This comes to mind ... God Wins, it is Written and we must Stand together, and Stand against the enemy!
xxx

 

[Mason]

Hi Linda,
I'm glad you find the verses I post interesting.

The phrase "those who are born of God cannot sin" refers to 1 John 3:9, which states that believers do not habitually or willfully practice sin because God’s seed (the Holy Spirit or divine nature) remains in them.

• Not Sinless Perfection: Theologically, this does not mean believers are incapable of occasional sin; rather, it means they cannot continue in a lifestyle of unrepentant sin.
• Changed Nature: Being "born of God" imparts a new nature that desires righteousness and rejects deliberate, habitual sinning.
• Scriptural Context: Similar passages like 1 John 3:6 and 1 John 5:18 emphasize that while believers may stumble, they do not make sin their practice or master.

I can't agree with this idea that those who are born of God can sin as that would contradict scripture.

Jesus wouldn't tell people to stop sinning if it were impossible that would be cruel and foolish:
“She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.” (John 8:11).
“Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.” (John 5:14).

Jesus turns us away from our iniquities:
“Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.” (Acts 3:26).

We must depart from iniquity:
“Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.” (2 Timothy 2:19)

Those who have suffered in the flesh have ceased from sin and live the rest of their life doing God's will:
“Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.” (1 Peter 4:1-2).

To whom you yield yourself a servant to obey, his servant you are to whom you obey. One is either a servant of sin or a servant of righteousness:
“What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.” (Romans 6:15-18).

You can't be a servant of sin and righteousness at the same time:
“No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.” (Matthew 6:24)

In these scriptures it says that he that is dead is freed from sin and that we are baptized into Jesus' death, so we die through our baptism:
“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.” (Romans 6:3-11).

Then we are brought back to life:
“But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.” (Romans 8:11).

It is black and white scriptures even say "let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil":
“Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:7-10)

 

[David]

Hi Linda,
I'm glad you find the verses I post interesting.

I can't agree with this idea that those who are born of God can sin as that would contradict scripture.

Jesus wouldn't tell people to stop sinning if it were impossible that would be cruel and foolish:
“She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.” (John 8:11).
“Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.” (John 5:14).

Jesus turns us away from our iniquities:
“Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.” (Acts 3:26).

We must depart from iniquity:
“Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.” (2 Timothy 2:19)

Those who have suffered in the flesh have ceased from sin and live the rest of their life doing God's will:
“Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.” (1 Peter 4:1-2).

To whom you yield yourself a servant to obey, his servant you are to whom you obey. One is either a servant of sin or a servant of righteousness:
“What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.” (Romans 6:15-18).

You can't be a servant of sin and righteousness at the same time:
“No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.” (Matthew 6:24)

In these scriptures it says that he that is dead is freed from sin and that we are baptized into Jesus' death, so we die through our baptism:
“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.” (Romans 6:3-11).

Then we are brought back to life:
“But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.” (Romans 8:11).

It is black and white scriptures even say "let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil" If the righteous can sin sometimes that distinction makes no sense:
“Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:7-10)

@Mason, we agree that Jesus calls us to turn from sin and walk in righteousness. But saying that a born-again believer cannot commit any sin goes beyond what Scripture teaches. We have to read John’s statements together.

You said 1 John 1:8 describes who we were before righteousness. But John includes himself and says, “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.” In the preceding verse, he speaks of walking in the light, having fellowship, and being cleansed by Jesus’ blood. The passage does not limit this warning to unbelievers.

John then writes:

“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous” (1 John 2:1).

He addresses his little children, tells them not to sin, and explains that if anyone does sin, “we have an advocate.” Christ’s advocacy does not excuse sin, but it does show that a believer who sins is not therefore someone who has never known Christ.

Romans 6 also distinguishes freedom from sin’s rule from an inability to commit sin. After telling believers to reckon themselves dead to sin and alive to God, Paul commands, “Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof” (Romans 6:12). That warning is directed to people who already belong to Christ.

Jesus’ command to “sin no more” tells us what we must do. It does not establish that everyone born of God becomes incapable of disobedience. John likewise writes “that ye sin not” while immediately explaining what happens “if any man sin.”

We must not use forgiveness as permission to continue in wickedness. But neither can we interpret 1 John 3:9 in a way that contradicts 1 John 1:8–9 and 2:1. New birth produces a changed life, not a license to sin, and not a claim that we have become sinless.

How does your statement that born-again believers cannot sin fit John’s words to his little children: “And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father”?

 

[David]

David,
For 1 John 1:8, that is about who we are before righteousness. “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.” (Romans 3:23-26).

But if we confess our sins, God forgives us and cleanses us from all unrighteousness.
“But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:7-9).

And 1 John 2:1-2 is what it says,
“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.” (1 John 2:1-2).

Where does John say that 1 John 1:8 describes only who we were before righteousness? That distinction is not in the passage. John says, “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.” He includes himself, and he says “have no sin,” not “had no sin.”

Notice the context you quoted. Verse 7 speaks of walking in the light, having fellowship, and being cleansed by Jesus’ blood. Verse 9 speaks of confessing our sins and receiving forgiveness. Being cleansed from all unrighteousness does not mean we become incapable of ever sinning again. Forgiveness and cleansing are not the same thing as an inability to disobey.

Romans 3:23–26 explains justification freely by God’s grace through the redemption in Christ Jesus. It does not say that justified people become incapable of committing sin, nor does it establish that John is speaking only about life before conversion.

You said 1 John 2:1–2 “is what it says.” I agree, and that is precisely why we need to take its whole statement seriously:

“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.”

John addresses his little children and commands them not to sin. Then he says that if anyone does sin, “we have an advocate.” He does not say that the person’s sin proves he was never born of God. He points us to Jesus Christ the righteous.

This gives us no permission to continue in sin. John’s purpose is plainly “that ye sin not.” But the same verse recognizes that a believer may sin and need Christ’s advocacy. We must uphold both statements.

How can those words fit the claim that someone born of God cannot commit any sin? Whatever John means in 1 John 3:9, we cannot interpret it in a way that contradicts what he has already written here.

"But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin."
~ Romans 7:17-25

Romans 7:15–20; Romans 7:24–25; Galatians 5:16–17; Romans 8:13; 1 John 1:8; 1 John 2:1; 1 John 3:2

 

[Yesua888]

Hi Linda,
I'm glad you find the verses I post interesting.

I can't agree with this idea that those who are born of God can sin as that would contradict scripture.

Jesus wouldn't tell people to stop sinning if it were impossible that would be cruel and foolish:
“She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.” (John 8:11).
“Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.” (John 5:14).

Jesus turns us away from our iniquities:
“Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.” (Acts 3:26).

We must depart from iniquity:
“Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.” (2 Timothy 2:19)

Those who have suffered in the flesh have ceased from sin and live the rest of their life doing God's will:
“Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.” (1 Peter 4:1-2).

To whom you yield yourself a servant to obey, his servant you are to whom you obey. One is either a servant of sin or a servant of righteousness:
“What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.” (Romans 6:15-18).

You can't be a servant of sin and righteousness at the same time:
“No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.” (Matthew 6:24)

In these scriptures it says that he that is dead is freed from sin and that we are baptized into Jesus' death, so we die through our baptism:
“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.” (Romans 6:3-11).

Then we are brought back to life:
“But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.” (Romans 8:11).

It is black and white scriptures even say "let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil" If the righteous can sin sometimes that distinction makes no sense:
“Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:7-10)

Hi Mason,

The verses you quote, make a "convincing" argument.
But are these verses being seen in isolation; or are they chosen to prove a point?
Could there be more to these kinds of "arguments"?

Just wondering, as I am not an expert of the Bible, merely learning, and finding it fascinating and quite Beautiful when it is made clear to me ...

I am assuming that you are a "born again Christian" and from your responses it is assumed that you are "sinless".

Have you never lost your temper, and caught yourself feeling angry?
Have you ever had some minor "bad" thoughts come into your mind, and then corrected them?
Have you not repented for the "petty" sins that you may have committed since you were "born again"?

It certainly happens to me and I usually feel so awful; it disturbs me to have to ask God for his forgiveness. It hurts that I hurt people.

Wondering whether we should be looking into Scripture deeper on this subject, and all subjects for that matter ...

Scripture in my short study of the bible, is often be taken out of context, and people do use isolated text support an argument.

I used to question (in my mind and out loud) why there are so many "contradictions" in Scripture ... the "corrections" that I received, clear up the confusion.

One good thing about "debates" is that after correction, more than only one or two people learn something more about Scripture, God's Word.

We ALL learn something from it : )

Hallelujah!

 

[Yesua888]

Where does John say that 1 John 1:8 describes only who we were before righteousness? That distinction is not in the passage. John says, “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.” He includes himself, and he says “have no sin,” not “had no sin.”

Notice the context you quoted. Verse 7 speaks of walking in the light, having fellowship, and being cleansed by Jesus’ blood. Verse 9 speaks of confessing our sins and receiving forgiveness. Being cleansed from all unrighteousness does not mean we become incapable of ever sinning again. Forgiveness and cleansing are not the same thing as an inability to disobey.

Romans 3:23–26 explains justification freely by God’s grace through the redemption in Christ Jesus. It does not say that justified people become incapable of committing sin, nor does it establish that John is speaking only about life before conversion.

You said 1 John 2:1–2 “is what it says.” I agree, and that is precisely why we need to take its whole statement seriously:

“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.”

John addresses his little children and commands them not to sin. Then he says that if anyone does sin, “we have an advocate.” He does not say that the person’s sin proves he was never born of God. He points us to Jesus Christ the righteous.

This gives us no permission to continue in sin. John’s purpose is plainly “that ye sin not.” But the same verse recognizes that a believer may sin and need Christ’s advocacy. We must uphold both statements.

How can those words fit the claim that someone born of God cannot commit any sin? Whatever John means in 1 John 3:9, we cannot interpret it in a way that contradicts what he has already written here.

"But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin."
~ Romans 7:17-25

Romans 7:15–20; Romans 7:24–25; Galatians 5:16–17; Romans 8:13; 1 John 1:8; 1 John 2:1; 1 John 3:2

Thank you again David, for bringing so much clarity : )

 

[Mason]

@David,
To me these scriptures below are clear that whoever is born of God does not sin and and the first confirms cannot sin.
I cannot see it any other way and I don't think they contradict the rest of 1 John so somehow it all fits together.
“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” (1 John 3:9).
“We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.” (1 John 5:18).

 

[Mason]

Notice the context you quoted. Verse 7 speaks of walking in the light, having fellowship, and being cleansed by Jesus’ blood. Verse 9 speaks of confessing our sins and receiving forgiveness. Being cleansed from all unrighteousness does not mean we become incapable of ever sinning again. Forgiveness and cleansing are not the same thing as an inability to disobey.

I just meant if we are cleansed of all unrighteousness then we are righteous and no longer unrighteous.

 

[Mason]

@Yesua888,
I was trying to use scripture to prove why the way I understand 1 John 3:9 and 1 John 5:18 is correct that whoever is born of God does not sin and cannot sin.

Have I stopped sinning? I don't know but I do know that if I do sin I don't know Jesus.
“Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.” (1 John 3:6)

 

[bobinfaith]

I can't agree with this idea that those who are born of God can sin as that would contradict scripture. Jesus wouldn't tell people to stop sinning if it were impossible that would be cruel and foolish:

David,
For 1 John 1:8, that is about who we are before righteousness. “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.” (Romans 3:23-26).

Where does John say that 1 John 1:8 describes only who we were before righteousness? That distinction is not in the passage. John says, “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.” He includes himself, and he says “have no sin,” not “had no sin.”

Hi Mason,
The verses you quote, make a "convincing" argument. But are these verses being seen in isolation; or are they chosen to prove a point? Could there be more to these kinds of "arguments"?

I am assuming that you are a "born again Christian" and from your responses it is assumed that you are "sinless".
Have you never lost your temper, and caught yourself feeling angry?
Have you ever had some minor "bad" thoughts come into your mind, and then corrected them?
Have you not repented for the "petty" sins that you may have committed since you were "born again"?

One good thing about "debates" is that after correction, more than only one or two people learn something more about Scripture, God's Word.
We ALL learn something from it : ) Hallelujah!

Good morning, Mason, David and Linda;

I purposely edited your posts to "help me" follow the conversation. First, speaking for myself, I'm not against debating but am not a debater. I have never been interested in participating in debates. It's not one of my strengths. My strength is communicating directly with you, then taking a step back, listening, receiving, responding and being open to correction or agreement.

What I'm understanding from each of your posts is that it could be something else. Let’s hone in on what we're saying to each other. I feel it has to do with the interpretation in

1 John 1:8-9, 8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us. - NIV

1 John 3:8-10, 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. 10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister. - NIV

Please answer my question first to help me understand before we proceed in this OP. If I'm correct in my question, then I'll share my understanding and application.

God bless you all and may He be in the center of our fellowship.

Bob

 

[Mason]

@bobinfaith,
And 1 John 5:18 but yes it's a difference of interpretation.

 

[bobinfaith]

@bobinfaith,
And 1 John 5:18 but yes it's a difference of interpretation.

Hello Mason;

1 John 5:18, 18 We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them. - NIV

We'll wait to hear from Linda and David, and anyone else who wants to discuss.

God bless you, Mason.

Bob

 

[Yesua888]

@Yesua888,
I was trying to use scripture to prove why the way I understand 1 John 3:9 and 1 John 5:18 is correct that whoever is born of God does not sin and cannot sin.

Am I sinless? I don't know but I do know that if I do sin I don't know Jesus.
“Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.” (1 John 3:6)

Hi Mason,
It seems that you are stuck on one verse only, and have not seen David's contribution, which at the time seemed to throw 1 John 3:6 out of the "equasion"... I am no longer sure now?
However, I cannot imagine anyone in the flesh achieving absolutely no sin; this is how I read is what you are implying.
Does being "born again" take our sins away completely?
In my opinion, intolerance, impatience, anger etc are Sins?
How does the Bible define "Sin"?
Are there other verses that say differently to the verse that you quote; yes David and Bob quoted many.
I admit that 1 John 3:6 is pretty clear in saying that "... whosoever sinneth has not seen Him, neither known Him".
Perhaps the other verses that were brought up, should be discussed, not only 1 John 3:6?
Perhaps Bob is right, and somehow these verses need to be looked at again, and maybe together we can come up with a better conclusion?
I too do not like "debating", but discussing is good : )

 

[Yesua888]

Good morning, Mason, David and Linda;

I purposely edited your posts to "help me" follow the conversation. First, speaking for myself, I'm not against debating but am not a debater. I have never been interested in participating in debates. It's not one of my strengths. My strength is communicating directly with you, then taking a step back, listening, receiving, responding and being open to correction or agreement.

What I'm understanding from each of your posts is that it could be something else. Let’s hone in on what we're saying to each other. I feel it has to do with the interpretation in

1 John 1:8-9, 8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us. - NIV

1 John 3:8-10, 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. 10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister. - NIV

Please answer my question first to help me understand before we proceed in this OP. If I'm correct in my question, then I'll share my understanding and application.

God bless you all and may He be in the center of our fellowship.

Bob

Sorry Bob, I missed the question here, but maybe I should go back to see if it was raised before : ) ?

How I see it, there are a few verses in 1 John that seem to be saying different things ... perhaps this is why there are differences in opinions ... we get stuck on one verse and do not move from that one, to see why two different things are being said?

 

[Mason]

@Yesua888 & @David,
Someone walking in the flesh cannot stop sinning:
“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.” (Galatians 5:16-17).
“For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.” (Romans 8:5-9).

These verses (1 John 3:9 & 1 John 5:18) clearly say that whoever is born of God does not sin and the first one affirms can not. There are no verses that say differently
“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” (1 John 3:9).
“We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.” (1 John 5:18).

I forgot even here it says Who ever abides in Jesus does not sin. God is clear on this. Remember we don't think like God, Isaiah 55:8-9.
“Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.” (1 John 3:6)

In talking about 1 John 2:1-2 David said, "How can those words fit the claim that someone born of God cannot commit any sin? Whatever John means in 1 John 3:9, we cannot interpret it in a way that contradicts what he has already written here."
You see David does not know what 1 John 3:9 means but it is clear what it means. 1 John 2:1-2 does not contradict 1 John 3:9 as David seems to think.

I think God brought me to this forum to share this amazing and difficult to understand truth. Praise the Lord!
May God help you understand.

 

[bobinfaith]

Hello everyone;

1 John 3:8-10, 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. 10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister. - NIV

Being born of God provides us with the "seed" (spiritual life,) empowering and enabling us by the Holy Spirit to avoid habitual sin. The sins I committed after being born of God led me to confess, repent and seek His forgiveness, This too, is the power of the Holy Spirit.

I also experienced how past sins become minimal to the point of overcoming past habitual sin. All empowered by the Holy Spirit.

No one who is born of God will continue in habitual sin. John tells us that when we are born again – born into the family of God – there is a real change in our relation to sin.

1 John 1:8-9, 8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us. - NIV

Egads! Then a new sin would enter my flesh, like murderous thoughts of violence toward a fellow driver when he flipped me off. Matthew 5:21-22. The moment I get home, I go into my prayer place and confess and repent of my wrongdoing and seek His forgiveness. I've learned to minimize this sin to the point of overcoming it. Now when I drive I stay focused from the last encounter and the Lord empowers me.

God bless you all.

Bob

 

[Yesua888]

@Yesua888 & @David,
Someone walking in the flesh cannot stop sinning:
“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.” (Galatians 5:16-17).
“For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.” (Romans 8:5-9).

These verses (1 John 3:9 & 1 John 5:18) clearly say that whoever is born of God does not sin and the first one affirms can not. There are no verses that say differently
“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.” (1 John 3:9).
“We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.” (1 John 5:18).

I forgot even here it says Who ever abides in Jesus does not sin. God is clear on this. Remember we don't think like God, Isaiah 55:8-9.
“Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.” (1 John 3:6)

In talking about 1 John 2:1-2 David said, "How can those words fit the claim that someone born of God cannot commit any sin? Whatever John means in 1 John 3:9, we cannot interpret it in a way that contradicts what he has already written here."
You see David does not know what 1 John 3:9 means but it is clear what it means. 1 John 2:1-2 does not contradict 1 John 3:9 as David seems to think.

I think God brought me to this forum to share this amazing and difficult to understand truth. Praise the Lord!
May God help you understand.

Mason,
Thank you for continuing to attempt to get us to see your stance on 1 John 3:9
I do not want to have a closed mind to anything Biblical, and think that perhaps this needs to be explored further.
As I see it both your and David's quoted Bible texts are clear, yet "different" ...
There must be something that we are missing, or the explanations for both "arguments" are not cutting it.
Perhaps we should examine what the word "Sin" actually means, and what "born of God" actually means.
When looking at 1 John 3:9, it feels like being born into this world, in the flesh and living in "Spirit" is "unachievable" (?), so what does it actually mean for us?
My understanding of Sin is that even feeling intolerant with my neighbour is a sin?
Is this what we have to overcome to "walk in the Spirit" 24/7?
What does 2 John 3:9 actually mean by "Sin"?
Lets dig into this deeper then : )