The 70th week of Daniel and The Tribulation. Is the church Tradition correct?

[gustavocordobah]

I contend that The Traditional understanding of The Evangelicals circles about the 70th week of Daniel being the period of
The Tribulation is incorrect


Daniel 9:27

"And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and IN THE MIDST OF THE WEEK he shall cause THE SACRIFICE
AND THE OBLATION TO CEASE, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the
consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

Daniel 12:11

"And from the time that the DAILY SACRIFICE shall be taken away, AND the abomination that maketh desolate set up,
there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days."

Matthew 24:15-21

"When ye therefore shall see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place,
(whoso readeth, let him understand
Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
For then shall be GREAT TRIBULATION, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

Conclusions:

1) If there are 3 and a half years beween the beginning of the 70th week and the Cease of the Daily Sacrifice (Dan 9:27) AND
1,290 days (3 and a half years PLUS one month) between the cease of the daily sacrifice and the Abomination
of Desolation (Dan 12:11) , then, between the beginning of the 70th week and the Abomination of Desolation there are SEVEN YEARS and ONE MONTH.
Hence, The Abomination of Desolation occurs OUT (and after) the 70th week of Daniel.

2) If The Great Tribulation spoken by Jesus occurs AFTER The Abomination of Desolation, then The Great Tribulation occurs OUT
(and AFTER) The 70th week of Daniel which makes the 70th week of Daniel to be NOT considered as The Day of Jacob's Trouble.
In top of that if The "flee to the mountains" from Matt 24 is paralelled with Rev 12:6 "The woman fled to the wilderness"
where she will be for 1260 days, it can only mean that there will be THREE AND A HALF YEARS MORE until the second coming,
counting from the END OF THE 70th Week.

What is Your Opinion?

 

[bobinfaith]

I contend that The Traditional understanding of The Evangelicals circles about the 70th week of Daniel being the period of The Tribulation is incorrect
What is Your Opinion?

2) If The Great Tribulation spoken by Jesus occurs AFTER The Abomination of Desolation, then The Great Tribulation occurs OUT (and AFTER) The 70th week of Daniel which makes the 70th week of Daniel to be NOT considered as The Day of Jacob's Trouble.
What is Your Opinion?

Hello gustavocordobah;
You wrote, The Tribulation is incorrect.

Are you stating, is the Bible is incorrect, or is man's interpretation, or your understanding, of the times of Tribulation incorrect?

According to Daniel and Matthew? You already provided Scriptures.

What I'm asking is please elaborate more from your own thoughts and understanding, and how do we apply this teaching in our daily walk with Jesus?

God bless you, Gustavo, and thank you for sharing The 70th week of Daniel and The Tribulation. Is the church Tradition correct?

Bob

 

[gustavocordobah]

Hi Bob,

As I clearly stated, and I quote, "I contend that The Traditional understanding of The Evangelicals circles about the 70th week of Daniel being the period of The Tribulation is incorrect".

So, What I am contesting is the "Understanding of the Evangelical circles" and NOT The Word of God.

I contend that The CORRECT interpretation of The Scriptures comes from LITERAL interpretation when No alternative is neccessary, and un my opinion Danielo 12:11 is enough clear:

There are 1.290 days BETWEEN two events, 1. The "Ceasing of The Sacrifice" and 2. The Abomination of Desolation.

The church, I can't inderstand WHY, have accepted that The Ceasing of The Sacrifice and The Abomination of Desolation occur simultaneously when Daniel 12:11 CLEARLY states the opposite.

That is the core of my point.

Thanks for commenting/responding.

God Bless.

 

[gustavocordobah]

Hello gustavocordobah;
You wrote, The Tribulation is incorrect.

Are you stating, is the Bible is incorrect, or is man's interpretation, or your understanding, of the times of Tribulation incorrect?

According to Daniel and Matthew? You already provided Scriptures.

What I'm asking is please elaborate more from your own thoughts and understanding, and how do we apply this teaching in our daily walk with Jesus?

God bless you, Gustavo, and thank you for sharing The 70th week of Daniel and The Tribulation. Is the church Tradition correct?

Bob

To further explain,

In Daniel 12:11 in hebrew we find:

וּמֵעֵת֙ הוּסַ֣ר הַתָּמִ֔יד וְלָתֵ֖ת שִׁקּ֣וּץ שֹׁמֵ֑ם יָמִ֕ים אֶ֖לֶף מָאתַ֥יִם וְתִשְׁעִֽים׃

The hebrew וּמֵעֵת֙ (u-mê-'êth) means "And FROM the moment" or "And FROM the time".

The English translations couldn't AVOID to write FROM as it is ENOUGH CLEAR, "From" is a word You can't dismiss AT ALL. It is in the original Hebrew.

Now, How and When Do You use the word "From"?

You do NOT use it when comparing two events occurring simultaneously!!!

You don't say "From the moment I got hit until it herted", neither "From the moment I stumbled till I fell"
No!! You use it when comparing two events which occurs SEPARATED in time by a period!!!

That is what Daniel 12:11 is stating!!!

There is NOT a third Event!!! Daniel is NOT comparing two events occuring simultaneously to a THIRD UNEXISTENT EVENT!!!

So, My conclusion is These are Two separated events (The Ceasing of the Daily Sacrifice and The Abomination od Desolation) occurring 1,290 Days APART.

 

[David]

I contend that The Traditional understanding of The Evangelicals circles about the 70th week of Daniel being the period of
The Tribulation is incorrect


Daniel 9:27

"And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and IN THE MIDST OF THE WEEK he shall cause THE SACRIFICE
AND THE OBLATION TO CEASE, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the
consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

Daniel 12:11

"And from the time that the DAILY SACRIFICE shall be taken away, AND the abomination that maketh desolate set up,
there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days."

Matthew 24:15-21

"When ye therefore shall see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place,
(whoso readeth, let him understand
Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
For then shall be GREAT TRIBULATION, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

Conclusions:

1) If there are 3 and a half years beween the beginning of the 70th week and the Cease of the Daily Sacrifice (Dan 9:27) AND
1,290 days (3 and a half years PLUS one month) between the cease of the daily sacrifice and the Abomination
of Desolation (Dan 12:11) , then, between the beginning of the 70th week and the Abomination of Desolation there are SEVEN YEARS and ONE MONTH.
Hence, The Abomination of Desolation occurs OUT (and after) the 70th week of Daniel.

2) If The Great Tribulation spoken by Jesus occurs AFTER The Abomination of Desolation, then The Great Tribulation occurs OUT
(and AFTER) The 70th week of Daniel which makes the 70th week of Daniel to be NOT considered as The Day of Jacob's Trouble.
In top of that if The "flee to the mountains" from Matt 24 is paralelled with Rev 12:6 "The woman fled to the wilderness"
where she will be for 1260 days, it can only mean that there will be THREE AND A HALF YEARS MORE until the second coming,
counting from the END OF THE 70th Week.

What is Your Opinion?

The issue is not what evangelical tradition says. The issue is what the text says.

Your conclusion depends almost entirely on one assumption: that Daniel 12:11 places 1,290 days between the removal of the daily sacrifice and the setting up of the abomination of desolation. But the verse does not say that.

Daniel 12:11 says, “And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.”

The text joins those two events together as the point from which the count is made. It does not say the sacrifice is removed, then 1,290 days later the abomination is set up. That gap is not in the verse. It has to be inserted.

Daniel 9:27 says, “in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.” That places the stopping of sacrifice in the middle of the week. The word “midst” means the middle. So Daniel 9 gives the timing inside the week, not after the week.

Then Jesus gives the controlling New Testament reference. He says, “When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place” ~Matthew 24:15. Then He says, “Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains” ~Matthew 24:16. Then He explains, “For then shall be great tribulation” ~Matthew 24:21.

So Jesus connects the abomination of desolation with the beginning of that terrible tribulation. He does not place it seven years and one month after the beginning of Daniel’s 70th week.

Revelation 12 does not fix your conclusion either. Revelation 12:6 says the woman flees into the wilderness for “a thousand two hundred and threescore days,” meaning 1,260 days. Revelation 12:14 describes that same period as “a time, and times, and half a time.” That language fits the three-and-a-half-year pattern already seen in Daniel. It does not require another separate three-and-a-half-year period after Daniel’s 70th week is already finished.

So the problem is simple: your timeline is being built on an inserted gap.

Daniel 9 places the cessation of sacrifice in the middle of the week. Matthew 24 connects the abomination of desolation with the great tribulation. Revelation 12 gives the 1,260-day wilderness period. Those passages fit naturally together as the latter half of that final period.

I am not defending a tradition. I am rejecting an addition to the text.

If the text does not state the gap, we do not build doctrine on it.

 

[David]

The church, I can't inderstand WHY, have accepted that The Ceasing of The Sacrifice and The Abomination of Desolation occur simultaneously when Daniel 12:11 CLEARLY states the opposite.

This is not about defending evangelical tradition. It is about not forcing a conclusion into the text.

 

[David]

To further explain,

In Daniel 12:11 in hebrew we find:

וּמֵעֵת֙ הוּסַ֣ר הַתָּמִ֔יד וְלָתֵ֖ת שִׁקּ֣וּץ שֹׁמֵ֑ם יָמִ֕ים אֶ֖לֶף מָאתַ֥יִם וְתִשְׁעִֽים׃

The hebrew וּמֵעֵת֙ (u-mê-'êth) means "And FROM the moment" or "And FROM the time".

The English translations couldn't AVOID to write FROM as it is ENOUGH CLEAR, "From" is a word You can't dismiss AT ALL. It is in the original Hebrew.

Now, How and When Do You use the word "From"?

You do NOT use it when comparing two events occurring simultaneously!!!

You don't say "From the moment I got hit until it herted", neither "From the moment I stumbled till I fell"
No!! You use it when comparing two events which occurs SEPARATED in time by a period!!!

That is what Daniel 12:11 is stating!!!

There is NOT a third Event!!! Daniel is NOT comparing two events occuring simultaneously to a THIRD UNEXISTENT EVENT!!!

So, My conclusion is These are Two separated events (The Ceasing of the Daily Sacrifice and The Abomination od Desolation) occurring 1,290 Days APART.

The issue is not whether Daniel 12:11 says “from.” It clearly does. The issue is what “from” is connected to in the sentence.

The Hebrew phrase וּמֵעֵת (u-mēʿēt) means “and from the time” or “and from the time of.” That gives the starting point of the count. But it does not, by itself, create a span between two separate events.

Daniel 12:11 says, “And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.”

The wording does not say, “from the time the daily sacrifice is taken away until the abomination is set up.” That is the wording your interpretation needs, but it is not what the verse says.

The phrase translated “set up” comes from וְלָתֵת (wə-lātēt), from נָתַן (nathan), meaning “to give,” “put,” “place,” or “set.” So the verse is speaking of the sacrifice being removed and the abomination being placed or set up.

Those two realities are joined together as the time marker from which the 1,290 days are counted. The verse does not state that the 1,290 days fall between them.

That matters because Daniel 9:27 already gives the placement of the ceasing of sacrifice: “in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.” The text places that event in the middle of the week.

Then the Lord Jesus points directly to Daniel and says, “When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place” ~Matthew 24:15. Immediately after that He says, “Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains” ~Matthew 24:16. Then He says, “For then shall be great tribulation” ~Matthew 24:21.

So the biblical sequence is not unclear. Daniel 9 places the ceasing of sacrifice in the midst of the week. Daniel 12 gives a count from the time the sacrifice is removed and the abomination is set up. Jesus connects the abomination with the flight from Judea and the great tribulation.

Your interpretation depends on turning “from the time” into “between.” But the text does not say “between.” It does not say the sacrifice stops and then 1,290 days later the abomination appears.

That is the problem. You are not simply reading the text literally. You are inserting a relationship between the two events that the text does not state.

A literal interpretation does not mean adding words to make the timeline work. It means letting the words of Scripture say what they actually say.