Modalism or the "Trinity"

[Yesua888]

Is the "Godhead" a Mystery?

I awoke one morning with the word "Godhead" in my mind ... I wanted to clear up some of my own murkiness around the "Trinity" (this term is not found in the Bible)

The fundamental difference is that Trinitarianism teaches God is one being in three distinct, co-eternal Persons (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) who exist simultaneously and interact with one another, whereas Modalism teaches that God is one single Person who manifests in three different modes or roles sequentially or situationally, never existing as more than one mode at a time.

Historically, Modalism (also known as Sabellianism or Oneness theology) has been condemned as heretical by mainstream Christian councils for denying the distinct personhood within the Godhead, while Trinitarianism is the orthodox doctrine affirming both the unity of God's essence and the distinction of His persons.
The strongest single refutation of Modalism is Matthew 3:16–17 combined with John 14:26: in one scene the Son is baptized, the Spirit descends onto him, and the Father speaks about him — three persons acting in distinct roles at the same moment. In John 14:26, the Father, Son, and Spirit are each doing a different thing (sending, being sent from, receiving) that a single person in "modes" could not coherently perform. (Scroll down for more Scriptural revelations)

Many battle to understand the "mystery" of the Godhead ... these are some of the questions and analogies that came up when delving into the "Trinity"

Is Holy Spirit the spirit of The Father or the spirit of Jesus, or both?

If Holy Spirit is the spirit of Father and of Jesus, then wouldn't there be 4 in the Godhead?

The Holy Spirit is one person, which can described from two angles. Think of it this way: a child can be called "my son" (from the father's perspective) and "my son" (from the mother's perspective). That doesn't make two children. It's one child, related to two different people.

All Three Present at Once​

Matthew 3:16–17: At Jesus' baptism: the Son is in the water, the Spirit descends as a dove, and the Father speaks from heaven — three distinct persons acting simultaneously

Matthew 28:19: "Baptizing them in the name (singular) of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" — one divine essence, three persons

2 Corinthians 13:14: "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit" — all three named together in one benediction

Isaiah 48:16: "And now the Sovereign LORD has sent me with his Spirit" — the Son speaking, referencing both the Father and the Spirit as distinct

Some have asked about the use of the word God: When is it referring to The Father and when to the Trinity?
That could be for another "study" : )

The Father and Son Are Distinct​

Matthew 26:39: Jesus prays, "My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from me; yet not as I will, but as you will" — two distinct wills

John 1:1: The Word was with God (πρὸς τὸν θεόν), and the Word was God" — the Son is both God and with God

John 14:28: "The Father is greater than I" — a relational distinction

John 17:1–5: The High Priestly Prayer: the Son prays to the Father, asking the Father to glorify him

Romans 8:34: Christ is "at the right hand of God" and intercedes — a distinct location and role

1 Corinthians 15:24–28: The Son will "hand over the kingdom to God the Father" — the Son is subordinate in role to the Father

The Holy Spirit Is a Distinct Person​

John 14:26: "The Helper…whom I will send to you from the Father" — the Son sends the Spirit from the Father; all three are distinct agents

John 15:26: "The Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will testify about me" — the Spirit bears witness about the Son, so cannot be the same person

Acts 5:3–4: Peter says Ananias lied "not to men but to God" — immediately after saying he lied "to the Holy Spirit." The Spirit is personally identified as God

1 John 5:6–7: "The Spirit, the water, and the blood…these three agree in one" — the Spirit is a distinct witness alongside the Father and Son.

Mutual Love Between the Persons​

John 3:35: "The Father loves the Son and has given everything into his hand."

John 14:31: " love the Father" — the Son loves the Father

John 17:24–26: "The Father loved you … that the love with which he loved me may be in you" — love presupposes two distinct persons.
Only two of the "Persons" are described above - what about Holy Spirit?

The Bible never explicitly states that the Father loves the Holy Spirit or that Jesus loves the Holy Spirit. This is a well-known absence that theologians have noted.

The closest passages are:

• Luke 10:21 — Jesus "rejoiced in the Holy Spirit," which implies a positive relational dynamic but doesn't use the word "love."
• Romans 15:30 — "I appeal to you, brothers, by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the Spirit" — though this is debated; many read it as "the love that exists in the Spirit" (i.e., our love for one another inspired by the Spirit) rather than the Spirit's own love for someone.

By contrast, the Father's love for the Son is explicit (John 3:35; John 17:24), and God's love for humanity is stated repeatedly (John 3:16; Romans 5:5).
The mutual love among the three persons is inferred from the unity and fellowship language (2 Corinthians 13:14; Philippians 2:1) and from Trinitarian theology.

​

 

[Yesua888]

View attachment 680

Is the "Godhead" a Mystery?

I awoke one morning with the word "Godhead" in my mind ... I wanted to clear up some of my own murkiness around the "Trinity" (this term is not found in the Bible)

The fundamental difference is that Trinitarianism teaches God is one being in three distinct, co-eternal Persons (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) who exist simultaneously and interact with one another, whereas Modalism teaches that God is one single Person who manifests in three different modes or roles sequentially or situationally, never existing as more than one mode at a time.

Historically, Modalism (also known as Sabellianism or Oneness theology) has been condemned as heretical by mainstream Christian councils for denying the distinct personhood within the Godhead, while Trinitarianism is the orthodox doctrine affirming both the unity of God's essence and the distinction of His persons.
The strongest single refutation of Modalism is Matthew 3:16–17 combined with John 14:26: in one scene the Son is baptized, the Spirit descends onto him, and the Father speaks about him — three persons acting in distinct roles at the same moment. In John 14:26, the Father, Son, and Spirit are each doing a different thing (sending, being sent from, receiving) that a single person in "modes" could not coherently perform. (Scroll down for more Scriptural revelations)

Many battle to understand the "mystery" of the Godhead ... these are some of the questions and analogies that came up when delving into the "Trinity"

Is Holy Spirit the spirit of The Father or the spirit of Jesus, or both?

If Holy Spirit is the spirit of Father and of Jesus, then wouldn't there be 4 in the Godhead?

The Holy Spirit is one person, which can described from two angles. Think of it this way: a child can be called "my son" (from the father's perspective) and "my son" (from the mother's perspective). That doesn't make two children. It's one child, related to two different people.

All Three Present at Once​

Matthew 3:16–17: At Jesus' baptism: the Son is in the water, the Spirit descends as a dove, and the Father speaks from heaven — three distinct persons acting simultaneously

Matthew 28:19: "Baptizing them in the name (singular) of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" — one divine essence, three persons

2 Corinthians 13:14: "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit" — all three named together in one benediction

Isaiah 48:16: "And now the Sovereign LORD has sent me with his Spirit" — the Son speaking, referencing both the Father and the Spirit as distinct

Some have asked about the use of the word God: When is it referring to The Father and when to the Trinity?
That could be for another "study" : )

The Father and Son Are Distinct​

Matthew 26:39: Jesus prays, "My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from me; yet not as I will, but as you will" — two distinct wills

John 1:1: The Word was with God (πρὸς τὸν θεόν), and the Word was God" — the Son is both God and with God

John 14:28: "The Father is greater than I" — a relational distinction

John 17:1–5: The High Priestly Prayer: the Son prays to the Father, asking the Father to glorify him

Romans 8:34: Christ is "at the right hand of God" and intercedes — a distinct location and role

1 Corinthians 15:24–28: The Son will "hand over the kingdom to God the Father" — the Son is subordinate in role to the Father

The Holy Spirit Is a Distinct Person​

John 14:26: "The Helper…whom I will send to you from the Father" — the Son sends the Spirit from the Father; all three are distinct agents

John 15:26: "The Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will testify about me" — the Spirit bears witness about the Son, so cannot be the same person

Acts 5:3–4: Peter says Ananias lied "not to men but to God" — immediately after saying he lied "to the Holy Spirit." The Spirit is personally identified as God

1 John 5:6–7: "The Spirit, the water, and the blood…these three agree in one" — the Spirit is a distinct witness alongside the Father and Son.

Mutual Love Between the Persons​

John 3:35: "The Father loves the Son and has given everything into his hand."

John 14:31: " love the Father" — the Son loves the Father

John 17:24–26: "The Father loved you … that the love with which he loved me may be in you" — love presupposes two distinct persons.
Only two of the "Persons" are described above - what about Holy Spirit?

The Bible never explicitly states that the Father loves the Holy Spirit or that Jesus loves the Holy Spirit. This is a well-known absence that theologians have noted.

The closest passages are:

• Luke 10:21 — Jesus "rejoiced in the Holy Spirit," which implies a positive relational dynamic but doesn't use the word "love."
• Romans 15:30 — "I appeal to you, brothers, by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the Spirit" — though this is debated; many read it as "the love that exists in the Spirit" (i.e., our love for one another inspired by the Spirit) rather than the Spirit's own love for someone.

By contrast, the Father's love for the Son is explicit (John 3:35; John 17:24), and God's love for humanity is stated repeatedly (John 3:16; Romans 5:5).
The mutual love among the three persons is inferred from the unity and fellowship language (2 Corinthians 13:14; Philippians 2:1) and from Trinitarian theology.

View attachment 681​

Your thoughts are welcome because I am open to correction ... we all get to learn from "correction" : )

 

[bobinfaith]

Your thoughts are welcome because I am open to correction ... we all get to learn from "correction" : )

Hello Yesua888;

You have demonstrated a woman of God who loves and follows Christ. You're also an advocate for discussing the Bible and stimulate listening, communicating and learning from God's Word. At the same time God is right there in the center building each one of us up in the fellowship.

I've learned when we stay focused in the Word God benefits us, so we can distinguish the difference when someone speaks wisdom and discernment from the Word versus someone who speaks with reason from the world.

After reading your OP it appears you presented 3 points, someone else's presentation of modalism, a universal god who may appear as a single being. I don't believe in modalism and support the Trinity. You stated your thoughts and understanding. You also supported Scripture to defend your apologetics.

You did good and any welcome to correction should be an automatic in all Christian discussions. Correction helps us remain in Light and Truth.

1 John 2

The Test of Knowing Christ​

2 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

The Test of Knowing Him​

3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

7 Brethren, I write no new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which you heard from the beginning. 8 Again, a new commandment I write to you, which thing is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away, and the true light is already shining.

9 He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. 10 He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him. 11 But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes. - NKJV

God bless you, Linda.

Bob

 

[David]

Your thoughts are welcome because I am open to correction ... we all get to learn from "correction" : )

I believe the most important thing in understanding the Godhead is to stay with what Scripture actually reveals rather than trying to explain everything through theological terminology or human illustrations.

The Bible plainly teaches that there is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4). It also teaches that the Word was God and was with God (John 1:1), that Jesus is the Son of God, and that the Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3–4).

At Jesus' baptism, the Father spoke from heaven, the Son was baptized, and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him (Matthew 3:16–17). That alone presents a serious problem for the idea that God is simply one person appearing in different modes.

Jesus also prayed to His Father and spoke of the glory He had with Him before the world existed (John 17:5). We cannot dismiss those words or pretend Jesus was merely speaking to Himself.

As for questions about the relationships within the Godhead that Scripture does not fully explain, I believe we should be careful not to speculate. God has revealed what He wants us to know, and our responsibility is to believe what He has said.

The word "Trinity" may not appear in Scripture, but the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit certainly do. The question is not whether we can explain everything about God's nature, but whether we are willing to accept everything His Word reveals about Him.