Are 7 days of creation literal?

[Greg]

I would like to present another point of view concerning the 7 days of creation. First of all I do not adhere to evolution. However, there is room enough for a good and clean debate. You not have to agree but at least consider the possibility that your understanding my be less than the truth.
Most know the scripture about the 7 days of creation. However, have you ever noticed that in Gen 2:4 ..."in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens"? Well the word "day" is the same hebrew word "Yom". It can be understood to mean a 24 hr day or a period of time. Apply the 24 hours to to this scripture. Does it make sense? Of course not! However, apply a"period of time" and it is applicable. Who determines that this application does not apply to the 7 days of creation? Applying the interpretation, of period of time, to both scriptures makes sense but to apply a 24 hour period is unreasonable.
There is more, to help you see this, but I will await to see what you have to say.

 

[David]

I would like to present another point of view concerning the 7 days of creation. First of all I do not adhere to evolution. However, there is room enough for a good and clean debate. You not have to agree but at least consider the possibility that your understanding my be less than the truth.
Most know the scripture about the 7 days of creation. However, have you ever noticed that in Gen 2:4 ..."in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens"? Well the word "day" is the same hebrew word "Yom". It can be understood to mean a 24 hr day or a period of time. Apply the 24 hours to to this scripture. Does it make sense? Of course not! However, apply a"period of time" and it is applicable. Who determines that this application does not apply to the 7 days of creation? Applying the interpretation, of period of time, to both scriptures makes sense but to apply a 24 hour period is unreasonable.
There is more, to help you see this, but I will await to see what you have to say.

Thanks for your comment. This is a good question, but we have to let Scripture interpret itself first, not simply rely on the range of possible meanings a word can have.

You’re correct that yom can be used to describe timeframes longer than 24 hours in certain contexts. But we cannot take a word and assign it a broader meaning when the immediate context defines how it is being used.

Look at Genesis 1. Day 1 says, “And the evening and the morning were the first day” ~Genesis 1:5. Day 2 follows the same pattern. Day 3, the same.

“Evening and morning” marks a clear cycle. That is not an undefined period of time. When Scripture gives numbering along with evening and morning, it is describing a normal day within the flow of the text.

Then look at how God refers back to it: “For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth… and rested the seventh day” ~Exodus 20:11. This is the pattern given for man. Six days of labor, one day of rest. That connection only holds if the days correspond in a real sense to the pattern given.

Now look at Genesis 2:4. “In the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.” Here yom is used to summarize the whole creation work. It is not redefining Genesis 1, but referring back to it in a different way. Same word, different context.

So the question is not just “what can this word mean?” but “how is it being used here?”

Genesis 1 is structured, numbered, and repeated in a measured way. Genesis 2:4 is a summary statement.

If we ignore that and focus only on what could be meant, we stop letting Scripture interpret Scripture and begin inserting meaning into the text.

yom can have different uses in different contexts. But in Genesis 1, the context consistently points to a defined day as presented in the text.

 

[Greg]

Thank you for your response.
#1 how could days 1, 2, & 3 be 24 hours if the sun wasn't until the 4th day?
#2 How can a day be defined when there was no Sun?
#3 How long was the morning and evening then?
It looks like you are assuming time was as it is today.
#4 Is day 7 a 24 day?
Morning and evening is not mentioned.
#5 There is no mention in scripture that the early earth rotates like it does today.
#6 If God called the light day and the darkness he called night. Then logic would ditate he did everything (according to some) in 3.5 days.
Assuming a 24 hour day is an equel to 12 hours for both day and night. On the #n day God created . So, does that "day"to be interpreted as God only working during the day (light)?

About Gen 1 being a summery I respectfully disagree. Gen 2:..he had rested from all his work that He created and made". In Hebrew it say that God rested from all his work that He created to make. The Father is the creator and the son is the maker. Genesis 1 tells the story of creation and Genesis 2 tell the story of Jesus making the heavens and the earth. Awaiting your response.

 

[David]

About Gen 1 being a summery I respectfully disagree. Gen 2:..he had rested from all his work that He created and made". In Hebrew it say that God rested from all his work that He created to make. The Father is the creator and the son is the maker. Genesis 1 tells the story of creation and Genesis 2 tell the story of Jesus making the heavens and the earth. Awaiting your response.

We don’t know that God used the sun to define a day, because Scripture never says He did.

That’s the whole issue. The text says, “God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day” ~Genesis 1:5. That is God defining a day before the sun even exists. So the sun is not the authority. God is.

You’re asking questions based on how things function now, but Genesis 1 shows you how God established things in the beginning. We don’t interpret the text by our assumptions. We let the text speak.

And the text is not unclear. It gives you a repeated pattern. Evening and morning. First day. Second day. Third day. That is not an undefined period. That is a structured, measured sequence.

Then God Himself ties it to our weekly pattern: “For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth… and rested the seventh day” ~Exodus 20:11. That command only makes sense if those are real days.

So the real question is this. Will we let Scripture define its own terms, or will we keep bringing in outside reasoning to reshape what God has already said?

Because once you step away from what is plainly written, there is no limit to where interpretation can go.

 

[Greg]

I disagree. Here is a story. A Father had 2 sons. One day he told them to go out and play. So they did and like boys do, they played with the dog. As time went on, the Father went outside and told them to wash the dog off and come eat supper. The older boy went inside, washed his hands and sat down to eat. A short time later the Father went outside to find the younger brother. He found him literally washing the dog. The Father said "when you get done, come eat supper.
Both had the same Father. One knew what the Father said. The other knew what the Father meant, and neither one was wrong.
Keeping that in mind, it always gives me pause to to contemplate which son I am. Sometimes I am older one, sometimes I am the younger one. As Paul say "we see as through a dark glass". So I thank you for you input.

 

[bobinfaith]

Thank you for your response.
#1 how could days 1, 2, & 3 be 24 hours if the sun wasn't until the 4th day?
#2 How can a day be defined when there was no Sun?
#3 How long was the morning and evening then?
It looks like you are assuming time was as it is today.
#4 Is day 7 a 24 day?
Morning and evening is not mentioned.
#5 There is no mention in scripture that the early earth rotates like it does today.
#6 If God called the light day and the darkness he called night. Then logic would ditate he did everything (according to some) in 3.5 days.
Assuming a 24 hour day is an equel to 12 hours for both day and night. On the #n day God created . So, does that "day"to be interpreted as God only working during the day (light)?

About Gen 1 being a summery I respectfully disagree. Gen 2:..he had rested from all his work that He created and made". In Hebrew it say that God rested from all his work that He created to make. The Father is the creator and the son is the maker. Genesis 1 tells the story of creation and Genesis 2 tell the story of Jesus making the heavens and the earth. Awaiting your response.

I disagree. Here is a story. A Father had 2 sons. One day he told them to go out and play. So they did and like boys do, they played with the dog. As time went on, the Father went outside and told them to wash the dog off and come eat supper. The older boy went inside, washed his hands and sat down to eat. A short time later the Father went outside to find the younger brother. He found him literally washing the dog. The Father said "when you get done, come eat supper.
Both had the same Father. One knew what the Father said. The other knew what the Father meant, and neither one was wrong.
Keeping that in mind, it always gives me pause to to contemplate which son I am. Sometimes I am older one, sometimes I am the younger one. As Paul say "we see as through a dark glass". So I thank you for you input.

Hello Greg;

Speaking for myself, I'm not going to be quick to disagree nor do I debate. But I'm asking you to elaborate to both your posts, and your story of the Father and two sons, what does that mean? So I can understand your view.

I believe in Genesis 1:1, In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. - ESV

Since I believe in the first passage, I have no doubt that the rest of the 66 books are the true, literal Word of God. The Bible must be understood literally, as directly truthful in literary context.

So how do I defend your views and questions for #1 through #6. I don't know, Greg. I can't directly assume others, nor make eloquent arguments for God's existence, His creation, His works.

I can encourage everyone that God awaits our direct questions and He will reveal why and how we know and why He exists. This is beneficial.

Your views of Genesis 1 and definitive yom (literal 24 hour period) have long been included in the mix of the theoretical (debate) of the young and old earth creation. But this view in the subcontextual, from purpose and design will always remain unanswered.

Regarding Genesis 1, what matters is God completed His Creation.

Genesis 2:1-3, 1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2 And on the seventh day God finished his work that he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work that he had done. 3 So God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it God rested from all his work that he had done in creation. - ESV

God bless you, Greg, your entire family, and thank you for allowing me to share.

Bob

 

[Yesua888]

Thanks for your comment. This is a good question, but we have to let Scripture interpret itself first, not simply rely on the range of possible meanings a word can have.

You’re correct that yom can be used to describe timeframes longer than 24 hours in certain contexts. But we cannot take a word and assign it a broader meaning when the immediate context defines how it is being used.

Look at Genesis 1. Day 1 says, “And the evening and the morning were the first day” ~Genesis 1:5. Day 2 follows the same pattern. Day 3, the same.

“Evening and morning” marks a clear cycle. That is not an undefined period of time. When Scripture gives numbering along with evening and morning, it is describing a normal day within the flow of the text.

Then look at how God refers back to it: “For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth… and rested the seventh day” ~Exodus 20:11. This is the pattern given for man. Six days of labor, one day of rest. That connection only holds if the days correspond in a real sense to the pattern given.

Now look at Genesis 2:4. “In the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.” Here yom is used to summarize the whole creation work. It is not redefining Genesis 1, but referring back to it in a different way. Same word, different context.

So the question is not just “what can this word mean?” but “how is it being used here?”

Genesis 1 is structured, numbered, and repeated in a measured way. Genesis 2:4 is a summary statement.

If we ignore that and focus only on what could be meant, we stop letting Scripture interpret Scripture and begin inserting meaning into the text.

yom can have different uses in different contexts. But in Genesis 1, the context consistently points to a defined day as presented in the text.

Thank you David, this is also an answer to one of my questions, because in mt head, for God to make the world in 6 literal days, sounds too little : ) The Scripture is pretty clear "Day 1 says, “And the evening and the morning were the first day” ... so good to have that settled. I know that I do not know my bible well enough yet, and that is why I am here, to learn : )

 

[Yesua888]

Thank you for your response.
#1 how could days 1, 2, & 3 be 24 hours if the sun wasn't until the 4th day?
#2 How can a day be defined when there was no Sun?
#3 How long was the morning and evening then?
It looks like you are assuming time was as it is today.
#4 Is day 7 a 24 day?
Morning and evening is not mentioned.
#5 There is no mention in scripture that the early earth rotates like it does today.
#6 If God called the light day and the darkness he called night. Then logic would ditate he did everything (according to some) in 3.5 days.
Assuming a 24 hour day is an equel to 12 hours for both day and night. On the #n day God created . So, does that "day"to be interpreted as God only working during the day (light)?

About Gen 1 being a summery I respectfully disagree. Gen 2:..he had rested from all his work that He created and made". In Hebrew it say that God rested from all his work that He created to make. The Father is the creator and the son is the maker. Genesis 1 tells the story of creation and Genesis 2 tell the story of Jesus making the heavens and the earth. Awaiting your response.

Good questions Greg, and something that I really need to study, to know : )
So now I am following closely : )

" Genesis 1:14–19 explicitly describes the creation of the sun, moon, and stars on the fourth day, stating that God made them to serve as signs, seasons, days, and years, and to give light on the earth.

On Day One, Genesis 1:3–5 says: “And God said, ‘Let there be light,’ and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. God called the light ‘day,’ and the darkness He called ‘night.’ And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.”

This passage confirms that light and darkness existed before the sun, with the day/night cycle being established by God’s separation of light from darkness, not by a sun. The sun was created on the fourth day to govern the day and to serve as a consistent marker for time."

This is all I will look into for now ... I am sure that David or Bob, will come up with something. I have learned that we should not assume, and that we should stick to what Scripture actually says. The "taking into context" part, is something that I don't feel confident to comment on, as yet : )

 

[Greg]

Hello Greg;

Speaking for myself, I'm not going to be quick to disagree nor do I debate. But I'm asking you to elaborate to both your posts, and your story of the Father and two sons, what does that mean? So I can understand your view.

I believe in Genesis 1:1, In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. - ESV

Since I believe in the first passage, I have no doubt that the rest of the 66 books are the true, literal Word of God. The Bible must be understood literally, as directly truthful in literary context.

So how do I defend your views and questions for #1 through #6. I don't know, Greg. I can't directly assume others, nor make eloquent arguments for God's existence, His creation, His works.

I can encourage everyone that God awaits our direct questions and He will reveal why and how we know and why He exists. This is beneficial.

Your views of Genesis 1 and definitive yom (literal 24 hour period) have long been included in the mix of the theoretical (debate) of the young and old earth creation. But this view in the subcontextual, from purpose and design will always remain unanswered.

Regarding Genesis 1, what matters is God completed His Creation.

Genesis 2:1-3, 1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2 And on the seventh day God finished his work that he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work that he had done. 3 So God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it God rested from all his work that he had done in creation. - ESV

God bless you, Greg, your entire family, and thank you for allowing me to share.

Bob

Bob
David and I are God's two sons (in Jesus). The Father is God. Sometimes brothers can disagree but still keep it civil. One of us knows what God is saying. The other knows what God means. Obeying God is the key without having conflict with another believer. I saying search the scriptures and the ask the Holy Spirit what it means to you. Each one of us grow in Christ at different levels. We should not condem but have patience with our brothers (or Sisters). A person can only walk in the light he has been shown.

As far as defending my views. I do not have to. I presented my views in hope that I might shead some light of understanding. Have you ever played the game of 3 dimension Tik Tac Toe?
There are different levels to the game.
Scripture is like that. There are multible dimensions on God's word. By reading it over and over God's Holy Spirit slowly reveals (here a little there a little) his hidden nuggets. They are precious to me. If someone does not understand, then their growth in Christ is not on the same level. It has nothing to do with their salvation or God's acceptance. Just keep on walking in Christ, grow in Christ. And above all never ever give up.
It is the glory of God to conceal a matter and honor of kings to search out that matter.
Proverbs 25:2.
As far as a literal interpretation, Jesus said unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you will have no part with me. Do you take that literal? Jesus also said if your eye offends you then pluck it out. Do you take that literal? Do not get caught up in someone else's dogma. Scrpture say you have no one to teach you but the Holy Spirit. If you disagree with someone, patiently listen to them, and shuck off the things that don't make sense. If God wants you to have it, God himself will reveal it to you, in due time.
However, I believe I am also responsible to help those younger in faith to progress to the fullness of Christ.

 

[Greg]

We don’t know that God used the sun to define a day, because Scripture never says He did.

That’s the whole issue. The text says, “God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day” ~Genesis 1:5. That is God defining a day before the sun even exists. So the sun is not the authority. God is.

You’re asking questions based on how things function now, but Genesis 1 shows you how God established things in the beginning. We don’t interpret the text by our assumptions. We let the text speak.

And the text is not unclear. It gives you a repeated pattern. Evening and morning. First day. Second day. Third day. That is not an undefined period. That is a structured, measured sequence.

Then God Himself ties it to our weekly pattern: “For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth… and rested the seventh day” ~Exodus 20:11. That command only makes sense if those are real days.

So the real question is this. Will we let Scripture define its own terms, or will we keep bringing in outside reasoning to reshape what God has already said?

Because once you step away from what is plainly written, there is no limit to where interpretation can go.

Than you for your input. I am understanding what you are saying. However, understanding scripture is not based on human reasoning but on God's light. He illuminates his word to each one of us, in due time. If you do not understand what I am saying, then shuck it off. If you are diligently seaking God's word then the Holy Spirit if God will reveal it to you. Never give up on asking God what his word means. No matter how old in the Lord you might be. I am always reminded how many times I have been wrong in my understanding of God's word to know I am not always correct. In my declining years I would like to depart, knowing I helped some to walk uprightly in Christ. Peace of God be with you!

 

[bobinfaith]

Bob
David and I are God's two sons (in Jesus). The Father is God. Sometimes brothers can disagree but still keep it civil. One of us knows what God is saying. The other knows what God means. Obeying God is the key without having conflict with another believer. I saying search the scriptures and the ask the Holy Spirit what it means to you. Each one of us grow in Christ at different levels. We should not condem but have patience with our brothers (or Sisters). A person can only walk in the light he has been shown.

As far as defending my views. I do not have to. I presented my views in hope that I might shead some light of understanding. Have you ever played the game of 3 dimension Tik Tac Toe?
There are different levels to the game.
Scripture is like that. There are multible dimensions on God's word. By reading it over and over God's Holy Spirit slowly reveals (here a little there a little) his hidden nuggets. They are precious to me. If someone does not understand, then their growth in Christ is not on the same level. It has nothing to do with their salvation or God's acceptance. Just keep on walking in Christ, grow in Christ. And above all never ever give up.
It is the glory of God to conceal a matter and honor of kings to search out that matter.
Proverbs 25:2.
As far as a literal interpretation, Jesus said unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you will have no part with me. Do you take that literal? Jesus also said if your eye offends you then pluck it out. Do you take that literal? Do not get caught up in someone else's dogma. Scrpture say you have no one to teach you but the Holy Spirit. If you disagree with someone, patiently listen to them, and shuck off the things that don't make sense. If God wants you to have it, God himself will reveal it to you, in due time.
However, I believe I am also responsible to help those younger in faith to progress to the fullness of Christ.

Than you for your input. I am understanding what you are saying. However, understanding scripture is not based on human reasoning but on God's light. He illuminates his word to each one of us, in due time. If you do not understand what I am saying, then shuck it off. If you are diligently seaking God's word then the Holy Spirit if God will reveal it to you. Never give up on asking God what his word means. No matter how old in the Lord you might be. I am always reminded how many times I have been wrong in my understanding of God's word to know I am not always correct. In my declining years I would like to depart, knowing I helped some to walk uprightly in Christ. Peace of God be with you!

Good morning, Greg;

Thank you for your good posts. I blue and red-lighted your thoughts and there is common ground in the areas of discipleship in God's Word and study. This is a good start in our future fellowship.

You asked about my literal interpretation. Absolutely, Greg. But we don't limit God. Jesus also teaches us that include parables, metaphors, etc...He also expands our learning by equipping us the ability to gain wisdom and knowledge in exegesis, hermeneutics, historical context, etc...and when to use them, so it's not solely literal.

When we disagree with someone, patiently listen to them, this I'm in accord with, and to "shuck off the things" that don't make sense, just the same, patiently receive when others question or comment your views or statements.

You learn more about the other person and this is also beneficial for gained understanding, increased fellowship and getting to know the other brother or sister.

I agree with you, Scripture is precious to all of us. When someone doesn't understand it's beyond the "level, or lack of," Scripture is God speaking to us. He also knows we each learn at our given pace. He sees our heart to learn thus covers us in His grace. These are all blessings.

As far as you defending your views you don't have to. No, you don't, and as you wrote, I also have the opportunity to receive what you believe. Whether I understand or not is on me.

You write, "Understanding Scripture is not based on human reasoning but on God's Light."
Greg, It's God's Light that blesses us the capacity for the human elements of reason and logic as part of His common grace and creation. Our human reasoning is finite and this is where God reveals His infinite strength.

Finally, Greg, you mentioned your declining health. Does this mean, in general, til the day you go to be with the Lord, or do you have a health issue that's declining? If it's the latter, my prayers for your healing or relief from pain are all lifted up to the Lord.

God bless you, Greg and your health.

Bob

 

[Greg]

Thanks for you kind request. I just that I am old and longing for Jesus to take me home. On his terms, not mine. I just hope and pray I can influence young Christian away from false teachings.

 

[bobinfaith]

Thanks for you kind request. I just that I am old and longing for Jesus to take me home. On his terms, not mine. I just hope and pray I can influence young Christian away from false teachings.

Thank you, Greg, for sharing with me.

Please keep writing!

God bless you and your family.

Bob

 

[David]

I disagree. Here is a story. A Father had 2 sons. One day he told them to go out and play. So they did and like boys do, they played with the dog. As time went on, the Father went outside and told them to wash the dog off and come eat supper. The older boy went inside, washed his hands and sat down to eat. A short time later the Father went outside to find the younger brother. He found him literally washing the dog. The Father said "when you get done, come eat supper.
Both had the same Father. One knew what the Father said. The other knew what the Father meant, and neither one was wrong.
Keeping that in mind, it always gives me pause to to contemplate which son I am. Sometimes I am older one, sometimes I am the younger one. As Paul say "we see as through a dark glass". So I thank you for you input.

I’m going to be straight with you. That story sounds thoughtful, but it actually moves us away from what Scripture commands us to do. God does not speak like a father giving vague instructions that can mean opposite things and both be right. The Word says, “God is not the author of confusion” ~1 Corinthians 14:33. And it says, “thy word is truth” ~John 17:17. Truth is not two conflicting meanings both being correct.

In your example, one son misunderstood. That’s the reality. He didn’t “understand deeper,” he missed what was actually said. And that’s exactly why we have to be careful here. Genesis 1 does not read like a riddle. It repeats the same structure over and over. “The evening and the morning were the first day… second day… third day.” That is not vague language. Then God ties it directly to our week: “For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth… and rested the seventh day” ~Exodus 20:11.

So this isn’t about which “son” we feel like. This is about whether we are going to take God at His Word or start treating it like it can mean opposite things at the same time. And I need to say this clearly, because this is where our forum rules come in.

We don’t operate on “it could mean this or that.” We operate on letting Scripture define itself. When a passage is clear, we don’t replace it with analogy or uncertainty. That opens the door to endless reinterpretation, and that’s exactly what we guard against here.

You said, “neither one was wrong.” Scripture does not allow that kind of approach to truth. There is what God said, and there is misunderstanding what He said.

So the question isn’t which son you are. The question is simple. Are we going to let the text stand as written, or are we going to soften it into something flexible?

Because once you go down that road, you’re no longer submitting to Scripture. You’re negotiating with it.

 

[David]

This is all I will look into for now ... I am sure that David or Bob, will come up with something. I have learned that we should not assume, and that we should stick to what Scripture actually says. The "taking into context" part, is something that I don't feel confident to comment on, as yet : )

That’s a good place to land for now. Stay right there. You don’t need to rush to answer everything. The right approach is exactly what you said, stick with what the text actually says and let Scripture explain Scripture.

Genesis already gives you the foundation. “God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day” ~Genesis 1:5. That means God Himself defined the cycle before the sun ever existed. The sun was not created to define the day, but to rule what God had already established. “Let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years” ~Genesis 1:14.

So the order matters. Light and darkness first. Sun later.

A lot of Greg’s questions are built on assuming things Scripture never says, like needing the sun to define a day, or assuming God was limited to how things function now. But the text never says that. It shows God establishing time by His Word, not by a created object.

And you already caught the key point. We don’t assume. We don’t speculate. We don’t fill in gaps with logic. We stay anchored to what is written.

“The entrance of thy words giveth light” ~Psalm 119:130. So keep doing exactly that. Read it. Compare it. Let it speak. You don’t need to force answers where Scripture has already been clear.

 

[David]

Bob
David and I are God's two sons (in Jesus). The Father is God. Sometimes brothers can disagree but still keep it civil. One of us knows what God is saying. The other knows what God means. Obeying God is the key without having conflict with another believer. I saying search the scriptures and the ask the Holy Spirit what it means to you. Each one of us grow in Christ at different levels. We should not condem but have patience with our brothers (or Sisters). A person can only walk in the light he has been shown.

As far as defending my views. I do not have to. I presented my views in hope that I might shead some light of understanding. Have you ever played the game of 3 dimension Tik Tac Toe?
There are different levels to the game.
Scripture is like that. There are multible dimensions on God's word. By reading it over and over God's Holy Spirit slowly reveals (here a little there a little) his hidden nuggets. They are precious to me. If someone does not understand, then their growth in Christ is not on the same level. It has nothing to do with their salvation or God's acceptance. Just keep on walking in Christ, grow in Christ. And above all never ever give up.
It is the glory of God to conceal a matter and honor of kings to search out that matter.
Proverbs 25:2.
As far as a literal interpretation, Jesus said unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you will have no part with me. Do you take that literal? Jesus also said if your eye offends you then pluck it out. Do you take that literal? Do not get caught up in someone else's dogma. Scrpture say you have no one to teach you but the Holy Spirit. If you disagree with someone, patiently listen to them, and shuck off the things that don't make sense. If God wants you to have it, God himself will reveal it to you, in due time.
However, I believe I am also responsible to help those younger in faith to progress to the fullness of Christ.

What you’re describing sounds humble on the surface. Brothers growing, different levels, learning over time. That part is true. We all grow. Nobody starts out with full understanding.

But then you took a step further, and that’s where the problem is. You said one person knows what God said, and another knows what God meant, and both can be right.

That doesn’t line up with the Word. God doesn’t speak in a way where His words say one thing but secretly mean something else depending on the person. Scripture says, “thy word is truth” ~John 17:17. Not shifting truth. Not layered contradictions. Truth.

Let’s make it plain. If one man says the text means this, and another says it means the opposite, both cannot be right. One of them is off. And the goal of growth is not to hold onto different meanings. The goal is to come into alignment with what God actually said.

Now I hear what you’re saying about the Spirit revealing things. That’s real. But the Spirit never teaches against the Word He inspired. “No prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation” ~2 Peter 1:20. The Spirit does not hand out different meanings to different people. He is leading us into the same truth.

And when you say Scripture has multiple “dimensions” where meanings can differ based on someone’s level, that opens the door wide. Because now truth becomes personal. Now everybody has their own version. And once that happens, the authority of Scripture is gone in practice, even if we say we believe it.

That’s not how God set this up. He also gave teachers for a reason. “He gave some… pastors and teachers” ~Ephesians 4:11. Not to replace the Spirit, but to faithfully handle the Word so others can understand it rightly. The Spirit works through the Word, not apart from it, and not in contradiction to it.

And those examples you gave about eating His flesh or plucking out your eye, those are not open-ended mysteries. Scripture gives the context to understand them. We don’t guess. We compare Scripture with Scripture.

So here’s where this lands, straight and simple. We can disagree and stay civil. We should be patient. But we cannot treat opposing meanings of Scripture as equally true. That’s not humility. That’s confusion. And God is not the author of confusion ~1 Corinthians 14:33.

This forum exists to hold the line on that. So you’re welcome here, but the standard doesn’t move. We don’t build truth on personal impressions or “levels.” We go back to the text, we line it up with the rest of Scripture, and we submit to what God actually said.

That’s how a man grows. Not by finding new meanings, but by coming under the one God already gave.

 

[David]

Than you for your input. I am understanding what you are saying. However, understanding scripture is not based on human reasoning but on God's light. He illuminates his word to each one of us, in due time. If you do not understand what I am saying, then shuck it off. If you are diligently seaking God's word then the Holy Spirit if God will reveal it to you. Never give up on asking God what his word means. No matter how old in the Lord you might be. I am always reminded how many times I have been wrong in my understanding of God's word to know I am not always correct. In my declining years I would like to depart, knowing I helped some to walk uprightly in Christ. Peace of God be with you!

You’re saying understanding comes by God’s light, and that’s true. “The entrance of thy words giveth light” ~Psalm 119:130. But the light comes through the Word God has already given, not through different meanings being handed out to different people. The Holy Spirit will help you understand what is written not give you a different meaning.

Where this becomes a problem is what you’re implying. When you say, “if you don’t understand what I’m saying, shuck it off and the Spirit will reveal it to you,” you’re putting this on a different level than the text itself. It sounds like if someone doesn’t agree with your view, it’s because they haven’t received that “light” yet.

But Scripture never teaches that the Holy Spirit gives new or different meanings beyond what is written. Jesus said, “thy word is truth” ~John 17:17. And the Spirit leads us into that truth, not away from it or beyond it.

So let’s be clear. Disagreement with your interpretation is not a lack of the Holy Spirit. In fact, Scripture says, “Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God” ~1 John 4:1. Testing by the Word is not resisting the Spirit. It is obedience.

And this is where we have to hold the line. If the text says, “evening and morning… the first day” ~Genesis 1:5, and God ties it to our week, “For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth” ~Exodus 20:11, then the meaning is not hidden behind another layer that only some receive later. It’s right there.

The Spirit of God does not lead one believer to say “this is what it plainly says” and another to say “it means something different,” and both be right. God is not the author of confusion ~1 Corinthians 14:33.

So yes, we all need humility. Every one of us has been wrong at times. But humility does not mean leaving room for multiple meanings or suggesting that those who stick with the plain reading just haven’t received enough light yet. And this is why we have to be careful about language like “new light” or different meanings being revealed over time. Scripture warns, “Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light” ~2 Corinthians 11:14. Not everything that sounds spiritual or enlightened is from God. That’s why everything must be tested against what is already written, not added to or redefined.

Real humility is this. When the Word is clear, we submit to it. We don’t go beyond it. We don’t reshape it. And we don’t imply others lack the Spirit because they refuse to move away from what is written.

That’s not resisting the Spirit. That’s honoring Him.

 

[David]

I just hope and pray I can influence young Christian away from false teachings.

I hear your desire to help others avoid false teaching. That’s a good desire. But this is where we have to be honest and let Scripture correct all of us.

What you’re presenting is not just a different perspective. It actually introduces error, especially when you start redefining who Jesus is and how Scripture should be interpreted.

You said the belief that Jesus is fully God and truly man violates Romans 1:20. But that verse does not say God must fit within human examples. It says creation reveals His power and Godhead. It does not limit Him to what we can observe or fully comprehend.

Scripture is clear about Christ. “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was God… and the Word was made flesh” ~John 1:1,14. And again, “For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily” ~Colossians 2:9. That is not partial. That is not something added later. That is who He is.

So we have to be careful here. Wanting to protect others from false teaching is good. But if what’s being taught changes the plain meaning of Scripture or redefines Christ, then it becomes the very thing you’re trying to guard against.

This isn’t about attacking you. It’s about holding to the Word. And the Word does not leave room for a Christ who is less than fully God. So the standard has to stay where Scripture puts it. Not what we feel, not what seems logical, but what is written. “Let God be true, but every man a liar” ~Romans 3:4

This is why it is so important. "whosoever shall cause one of these little ones that believe on me to stumble, it were better for him if a great millstone were hung about his neck, and he were cast into the sea." ~Matthew 18:6. It is admirable to want to help teach others, but if wrong is combined with it we have a recipe for disaster. This is why we must be steadfast in what Scripture says, and NOT add to it or change it.

 

[Greg]

What you’re describing sounds humble on the surface. Brothers growing, different levels, learning over time. That part is true. We all grow. Nobody starts out with full understanding.

But then you took a step further, and that’s where the problem is. You said one person knows what God said, and another knows what God meant, and both can be right.

That doesn’t line up with the Word. God doesn’t speak in a way where His words say one thing but secretly mean something else depending on the person. Scripture says, “thy word is truth” ~John 17:17. Not shifting truth. Not layered contradictions. Truth.

Let’s make it plain. If one man says the text means this, and another says it means the opposite, both cannot be right. One of them is off. And the goal of growth is not to hold onto different meanings. The goal is to come into alignment with what God actually said.

Now I hear what you’re saying about the Spirit revealing things. That’s real. But the Spirit never teaches against the Word He inspired. “No prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation” ~2 Peter 1:20. The Spirit does not hand out different meanings to different people. He is leading us into the same truth.

And when you say Scripture has multiple “dimensions” where meanings can differ based on someone’s level, that opens the door wide. Because now truth becomes personal. Now everybody has their own version. And once that happens, the authority of Scripture is gone in practice, even if we say we believe it.

That’s not how God set this up. He also gave teachers for a reason. “He gave some… pastors and teachers” ~Ephesians 4:11. Not to replace the Spirit, but to faithfully handle the Word so others can understand it rightly. The Spirit works through the Word, not apart from it, and not in contradiction to it.

And those examples you gave about eating His flesh or plucking out your eye, those are not open-ended mysteries. Scripture gives the context to understand them. We don’t guess. We compare Scripture with Scripture.

So here’s where this lands, straight and simple. We can disagree and stay civil. We should be patient. But we cannot treat opposing meanings of Scripture as equally true. That’s not humility. That’s confusion. And God is not the author of confusion ~1 Corinthians 14:33.

This forum exists to hold the line on that. So you’re welcome here, but the standard doesn’t move. We don’t build truth on personal impressions or “levels.” We go back to the text, we line it up with the rest of Scripture, and we submit to what God actually said.

That’s how a man grows. Not by finding new meanings, but by coming under the one God already.

You think you know what God says but I sense you do not know what the Holy Spirit is saying and that you are the arbitrator of truth. I pray that someday God will illuminate your understanding of the Scriptures and that God will grant you the grace that God had granted you.
Paul was so adimate about his understanding of what God wanted but was enlightened in his error. If you think I am wrong then pray for me.
About God giving out to each the same. If that is the case then there is no room for growth or learning since all of us were given the same knowledge. Paul said "I have many things to share with you but you are not able to bear them"
Growth comes from understanding that you may not always have the correct view.
Again you are my brother and my God bless and keep you!

 

[David]

Greg said:​

"You think you know what God says but I sense you do not know what the Holy Spirit is saying and that you are the arbitrator of truth. I pray that someday God will illuminate your understanding of the Scriptures and that God will grant you the grace that God had granted you.
Paul was so adimate about his understanding of what God wanted but was enlightened in his error. If you think I am wrong then pray for me.
About God giving out to each the same. If that is the case then there is no room for growth or learning since all of us were given the same knowledge. Paul said "I have many things to share with you but you are not able to bear them"
Growth comes from understanding that you may not always have the correct view."

- - -

David said:

I’m going to say this as simple as possible. If something is from God, it will match what is written. If it doesn’t match what is written, it’s not from God.

Saying, “the Spirit showed me something different” doesn’t make it true. Scripture says, “try the spirits whether they are of God” ~1 John 4:1. How? By the Word. And here’s the issue. When someone disagrees with you, you’re not testing your view. You’re saying they just don’t have the same “light.”

That puts your understanding above correction. But Scripture says, “All scripture… is for correction” ~2 Timothy 3:16. That includes you. That includes me. Growth doesn’t mean new meanings. Growth means when we’re wrong, we get corrected by what God already said.

So it’s simple. Your view must line up with the Bible. If it doesn’t, it needs to change.

 

[Greg]

I disagree with your analysis. However, I am praying that God will bless you!

 

[David]

I disagree with your analysis. However, I am praying that God will bless you!

At the end of the day, it’s not about my analysis or yours. It’s about what the Word of God actually says. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good” ~1 Thessalonians 5:21 If what’s been shared lines up with Scripture, we should receive it. If it doesn’t, we should reject it.

 

[Yesua888]

Now I hear what you’re saying about the Spirit revealing things. That’s real. But the Spirit never teaches against the Word He inspired. “No prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation” ~2 Peter 1:20. The Spirit does not hand out different meanings to different people. He is leading us into the same truth.

1 Corinthians 14:33 states: "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints." This verse emphasizes that God's nature is one of order and harmony, not chaos.

This has been a good lesson, thank you all : )

 

[Yesua888]

Greg said:​

"You think you know what God says but I sense you do not know what the Holy Spirit is saying and that you are the arbitrator of truth. I pray that someday God will illuminate your understanding of the Scriptures and that God will grant you the grace that God had granted you.
Paul was so adimate about his understanding of what God wanted but was enlightened in his error. If you think I am wrong then pray for me.
About God giving out to each the same. If that is the case then there is no room for growth or learning since all of us were given the same knowledge. Paul said "I have many things to share with you but you are not able to bear them"
Growth comes from understanding that you may not always have the correct view."

- - -

David said:

2 Timothy 3:16 states: "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness."
This verse emphasizes the divine inspiration and practical utility of the Bible, affirming that Scripture is not merely human writing but is "breathed out by God" (Greek: theopneustos), making it authoritative and beneficial for guiding believers in truth, correcting error, and shaping godly living. The verse is foundational for the Christian belief in the Bible's authority and sufficiency.

 

[dkontner]

Does it really matter? God could have done it all at once, but chose 7 days. God will work 6 days and rest on the seventh. What else can be gathered? Walls of Jericho, 6 days, mount of transfiguration, after 6 days. A day with the Lord is as 1000 years. The earth has been here about 6000 years (6 days). I f you search 'third day', you'll find it''s everywhere. Jesus was here 2000 years ago, 2 days. Here are a few favorites.

Luke 13:32​

And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.

Exodus 19:10-11

10 And the Lord said unto Moses, Go unto the people, and sanctify them to day and to morrow, and let them wash their clothes,

11 And be ready against the third day: for the third day the Lord will come down in the sight of all the people upon mount Sinai.

John 2​

1 And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there:

2 And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage.

Hosea 6​

1 Come, and let us return unto the Lord: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.

2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

 

[David]

Does it really matter? God could have done it all at once, but chose 7 days. God will work 6 days and rest on the seventh. What else can be gathered? Walls of Jericho, 6 days, mount of transfiguration, after 6 days. A day with the Lord is as 1000 years. The earth has been here about 6000 years (6 days). I f you search 'third day', you'll find it''s everywhere. Jesus was here 2000 years ago, 2 days. Here are a few favorites.

Luke 13:32​

And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.

Exodus 19:10-11

10 And the Lord said unto Moses, Go unto the people, and sanctify them to day and to morrow, and let them wash their clothes,

11 And be ready against the third day: for the third day the Lord will come down in the sight of all the people upon mount Sinai.

John 2​

1 And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there:

2 And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage.

Hosea 6​

1 Come, and let us return unto the Lord: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.

2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

I get what you’re seeing. Those patterns can look powerful. But you’ve got to be careful not to let patterns start preaching louder than the text itself.

God never told us to build a timeline out of numbers. That “a day is with the Lord as a thousand years” ~2 Peter 3:8 isn’t a calculator. It’s a correction. Peter is dealing with people who thought God was slow. Then he says, “The Lord is not slack concerning his promise… but is longsuffering” ~2 Peter 3:9. The point is not math. The point is mercy.

You start turning that into a 6000-year clock, now you’re stepping past what’s written. And Jesus already closed that door. “It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power” ~Acts 1:7. That’s not unclear. That’s direct.

Now look at those “third day” passages. They’re real. But each one has its own meaning in its own place. Sinai was about preparation to meet God ~Exodus 19:10-11. Cana was a real wedding ~John 2:1. Hosea is calling Israel to return and speaking of their restoration ~Hosea 6:2.

But when God wants you to know what the “third day” points to, He tells you straight. “He rose again the third day according to the scriptures” ~1 Corinthians 15:4.

That’s the anchor. Not a pattern to decode. A Person who rose. Here’s the danger. You can start with Scripture, but if you keep stretching it past what it actually says, you end up building something God never said. And once that happens, you’re no longer standing on the Word. You’re standing on your interpretation of patterns.

Scripture warns us about that. “That ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written” ~1 Corinthians 4:6. So yes, it matters.

Because God didn’t call us to crack a hidden code. He called us to believe what He said, trust His Son, and be ready. “Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come” ~Matthew 24:42.

Keep your feet on the text. Let Scripture speak where it speaks. And where it’s silent, don’t try to fill in the gaps. That’s how you stay grounded and not get pulled off into something that sounds deep, but isn’t actually what God said.

 

[dkontner]

I listen to what he tells me thru his word, I don't need you telling me to be careful. You didn't save me.

 

[David]

I listen to what he tells me thru his word, I don't need you telling me to be careful. You didn't save me.

I’ve never said that I saved you. That’s not my job. Christ alone saves. “Salvation is of the Lord” ~Jonah 2:9. However, if we’re both claiming to be hearing God by sitting under His Word, then we can’t run ahead of what He actually said.

It’s one thing to read your Bible. It’s another to continue to remain submitted to it. You can pull timelines together and patterns. But at no point did God give you a Scripture that said, “Now reach here and connect that with this…”

When you step into the Word of God and start building things that God didn’t say, you’ve stepped out of His will and out from under His authority, even if it feels good and spiritual.

The Bible doesn’t leave that open for interpretation. Scripture specifically puts a guardrail there. “No prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation” ~2 Peter 1:20. You don’t get to take pieces of Scripture and connect dots to create something that the text doesn’t say.

Jesus Himself didn’t leave it open for people to build timelines. “It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power” ~Acts 1:7. Did you catch that? That’s not me. That’s the Lord Himself drawing the line in the sand.

But here’s where it affects your heart. We can sit there and easily say, “I am just listening to God.” But how do you know if someone is really hearing from God? Scripture answers that for us. “He that is of God heareth God’s words” ~John 8:47. Which means we actually hear what He said.

Not what we can manipulate or try to hear out of what He said. So this isn’t about me correcting you like I’m above you. This is about both of us bowing to the same authority. “Let God be true, but every man a liar” ~Romans 3:4. If the Word says it, I stand on it. If the Word doesn’t say it, I don’t build on it.

Stay humble and grounded, and don’t drift into something that sounds deep and feels spiritual, but isn’t actually what God said.

 

[OceanLilly]

I would like to present another point of view concerning the 7 days of creation. First of all I do not adhere to evolution. However, there is room enough for a good and clean debate. You not have to agree but at least consider the possibility that your understanding my be less than the truth.
Most know the scripture about the 7 days of creation. However, have you ever noticed that in Gen 2:4 ..."in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens"? Well the word "day" is the same hebrew word "Yom". It can be understood to mean a 24 hr day or a period of time. Apply the 24 hours to to this scripture. Does it make sense? Of course not! However, apply a"period of time" and it is applicable. Who determines that this application does not apply to the 7 days of creation? Applying the interpretation, of period of time, to both scriptures makes sense but to apply a 24 hour period is unreasonable.
There is more, to help you see this, but I will await to see what you have to say.

I don't think so. I think days,as man understands it,are used to allow us to register the story of creation in a way relative to what we already know as true. A day is 24 hours.

While, time is man's invention. Not eternal God's.