Understanding the Biblical Creation account as literal versus non-literal.

[Hobie]

I came across a discussion on whether understanding the Biblical Creation account as literal or non-literal, affects our knowledge of the nature of sin. The focus was on Creation in Genesis 1-3 with some reaching into the topics discussed in chapters 4-11. When you read the Bible or any book for that matter, you must look to see if the author intend it to be fiction or actual events. One must first demonstrate from the given text that the author did not intend for anyone to read his words as a literal historical account. Any assertion that states that a non-literal reading is the most appropriate reading must provide evidence of specific figurative indicators in the text such as metaphors, similes allegories, hyperbole, symbolism and such. A non-literal approach, is a significant issue doctrinally, as the entire book Genesis is the seedbed for all of the theology that follows. The Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, is a system of progressive revelation that builds upon itself. Meaning that Abraham built upon the revelation given to Noah and thus had more light than Noah, Moses built upon the revelation given to Abraham and thus had more light than Abraham, David built on or had more light Moses, Isaiah built on or had more light than David, and the apostles had more than the prophets of the Old Testament. Thus, what was said in earlier parts of the Bible forms the foundation upon which more light was revealed to later generations.

So how did the succeeding generations of those who were used by God has His human authors of Scripture, see the creation account. Did Moses, Jesus, David, or any of the prophets or apostles view the Creation account in Genesis as a non-literal account, it was seen by the them as literal as we see.

The Bible is set up in such a manner that there is no single verse, passage, chapter or book that contains all of the truth on a given matter. In this way, God designed the Bible to be studied and searched out and designed it so that all of the doctrines of Scripture are interlocked with each other, we especially see this in the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation. The Bible tells us if figurative language is being used or when something is a vision, allegory or parable, symbol or metaphor. It does not leave it up to us to guess. Absent those textual indicators, the default understanding of any given text in Scripture is literal which means that a text is understood within the framework the author intends. It means to read the text with the object that the author has in view and not to assign any values to the text on our own. A non-literal approach makes the text subject to the whims of the reader and erodes the authority of the author.

So a non-literal approach to Genesis 1-11 devalues the authority of Word of God as final arbiter on all matters of Christian faith and practice and opens the door for spurious theories, such as evolution. Many of the new Bible versions interject mans theories or ideas over Gods truth or worse distort the meaning with the changes to the Word. God takes His Word very seriously, and so should man, who is His creation. As you can see, if Genesis is not literal then the Creator is diminished, the Sabbath is more Moses imprint than Gods, and sin was about a snake that charmed a woman rather than the fall of mankind. Its important..

 

[David]

I came across a discussion on whether understanding the Biblical Creation account as literal or non-literal, affects our knowledge of the nature of sin. The focus was on Creation in Genesis 1-3 with some reaching into the topics discussed in chapters 4-11. When you read the Bible or any book for that matter, you must look to see if the author intend it to be fiction or actual events. One must first demonstrate from the given text that the author did not intend for anyone to read his words as a literal historical account. Any assertion that states that a non-literal reading is the most appropriate reading must provide evidence of specific figurative indicators in the text such as metaphors, similes allegories, hyperbole, symbolism and such. A non-literal approach, is a significant issue doctrinally, as the entire book Genesis is the seedbed for all of the theology that follows. The Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, is a system of progressive revelation that builds upon itself. Meaning that Abraham built upon the revelation given to Noah and thus had more light than Noah, Moses built upon the revelation given to Abraham and thus had more light than Abraham, David built on or had more light Moses, Isaiah built on or had more light than David, and the apostles had more than the prophets of the Old Testament. Thus, what was said in earlier parts of the Bible forms the foundation upon which more light was revealed to later generations.

So how did the succeeding generations of those who were used by God has His human authors of Scripture, see the creation account. Did Moses, Jesus, David, or any of the prophets or apostles view the Creation account in Genesis as a non-literal account, it was seen by the them as literal as we see.

The Bible is set up in such a manner that there is no single verse, passage, chapter or book that contains all of the truth on a given matter. In this way, God designed the Bible to be studied and searched out and designed it so that all of the doctrines of Scripture are interlocked with each other, we especially see this in the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation. The Bible tells us if figurative language is being used or when something is a vision, allegory or parable, symbol or metaphor. It does not leave it up to us to guess. Absent those textual indicators, the default understanding of any given text in Scripture is literal which means that a text is understood within the framework the author intends. It means to read the text with the object that the author has in view and not to assign any values to the text on our own. A non-literal approach makes the text subject to the whims of the reader and erodes the authority of the author.

So a non-literal approach to Genesis 1-11 devalues the authority of Word of God as final arbiter on all matters of Christian faith and practice and opens the door for spurious theories, such as evolution. Many of the new Bible versions interject mans theories or ideas over Gods truth or worse distort the meaning with the changes to the Word. God takes His Word very seriously, and so should man, who is His creation. As you can see, if Genesis is not literal then the Creator is diminished, the Sabbath is more Moses imprint than Gods, and sin was about a snake that charmed a woman rather than the fall of mankind. Its important..

That's a fair and well organized post. You are correct that Jesus and the apostles read the early chapters of Genesis as history, not as myth or allegory. Allow me a question of my own so that we can dig a little deeper into the issue: given that Romans 5:12–19 and 1 Corinthians 15:21–22 ground the universality of sin and the atonement in an actual, historical Adam, how would a non-literal reading of Genesis 1–3 impact one's understanding of the gospel itself?

 

[Hobie]

That's a fair and well organized post. You are correct that Jesus and the apostles read the early chapters of Genesis as history, not as myth or allegory. Allow me a question of my own so that we can dig a little deeper into the issue: given that Romans 5:12–19 and 1 Corinthians 15:21–22 ground the universality of sin and the atonement in an actual, historical Adam, how would a non-literal reading of Genesis 1–3 impact one's understanding of the gospel itself?

If you say it wasn't 7 literal days, then it could be stretched to 7 million years and evolution shoe horned into the picture....

 

[bobinfaith]

Hello Hobie and David;

The literal and nonliteral in my experience as a student of the Bible is relevant for both to understanding God's Word.

First, much our English language has two or multiple definitions including the interpretations, but in general give the Bible writers both a literal plain meaning as well as a nonliteral to give a deeper meaning through parables, metaphors, allegories, symbolism, etc...

My problem with attempting to read the Bible solely on a non-literal approach, for example, Genesis and Revelation, is this; we must be careful not to allow our personal interpretation of "minor notes" in the verses mislead the disciple and ourselves.

What can constitute a minor note as misleading? For example, the world being created in 7 days, or 7000 days or millions of years, how does that align into the message and how we arrive at life's lessons and application of what God is teaching each of us?

My other problem when attempting to read the Bible solely as a literal approach can develop a shallow understanding of what God is saying to us and putting limitations on God's teaching.

The study of the Bible should not be a leisure study, what verse has a "feel good" romantic and poetic read. That is not the purpose. God's Ways are so much higher that we will never fathom Him, therefore, the Bible is the easiest way for us to know and understand God that only He makes available for us.

If it's a just matter of conversation over a cup of coffee, then that's fine.

God bless you both.

bobinfaith

 

[David]

The study of the Bible should not be a leisure study, what verse has a "feel good" romantic and poetic read. That is not the purpose. God's Ways are so much higher that we will never fathom Him, therefore, the Bible is the easiest way for us to know and understand God that only He makes available for us.

Some good points made there. I agree with you that the Bible has both literal and figurative language in it. God does at times speak through parables, metaphors, similies, and symbols. He also at times gives us clear historical truth. The important thing is to know when the Scripture itself indicates the distinction.

I agree that the Word of God should never be read casually or treated as some sort of “feel-good” book. It is the revelation of the heart and truth of God to us. You are right that either extreme can cause one to err--reading all literal and none figurative, or all figurative and none literal.

The foundation has to remain clear, though. The Bible means what God intended it to mean, not what we want it to mean. We don't determine what is symbolic and what is not; the Scripture itself by its context tells us that. For example, when Genesis says, "In six days the LORD made heaven and earth" ~Exodus 20: 11, that is presented as history, not poetry. But when Jesus says, "I am the vine" ~John 15: 5, we recognize it is a metaphor teaching spiritual truth.

Yes, we can enjoy the beauty and depth of Scripture, but we must always let the Word interpret itself. "Rightly dividing the word of truth" ~2 Timothy 2: 15 is what keeps us grounded and growing.

 

[Mr. GLee]

Some good points made there. I agree with you that the Bible has both literal and figurative language in it. God does at times speak through parables, metaphors, similies, and symbols. He also at times gives us clear historical truth. The important thing is to know when the Scripture itself indicates the distinction.

I agree that the Word of God should never be read casually or treated as some sort of “feel-good” book. It is the revelation of the heart and truth of God to us. You are right that either extreme can cause one to err--reading all literal and none figurative, or all figurative and none literal.

The foundation has to remain clear, though. The Bible means what God intended it to mean, not what we want it to mean. We don't determine what is symbolic and what is not; the Scripture itself by its context tells us that. For example, when Genesis says, "In six days the LORD made heaven and earth" ~Exodus 20: 11, that is presented as history, not poetry. But when Jesus says, "I am the vine" ~John 15: 5, we recognize it is a metaphor teaching spiritual truth.

Yes, we can enjoy the beauty and depth of Scripture, but we must always let the Word interpret itself. "Rightly dividing the word of truth" ~2 Timothy 2: 15 is what keeps us grounded and growing.

I would offer it would seem the word "without" when describing the work of parables has become. . some times He spoke in parables .

Matthew 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

We serve a God who hides (invisible) "Let there be" and reveals His love and as it was seen "was God alone golden good." the law of powerful faith (believing something will appear when declared "Let there be"

Isaiah 45:15 Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.

Parables are prophecy that hides the spiritual unseen understanding from the god of this world. The father of lying signs that cause men to wonder, wonder, wonder after just as if true prophecy the father of lies not subject to the mysteries of faith--- hid in parables .

Parables the mixing of the temporal things seen the historical. They must be mixed with the unseen eternal things of Christ or there can be no gospel rest---- The rest---the understanding of the mysteries of Christ's powerful faithfulness.

Parables the hidden understanding of Christ .Hid from Satan the iffy god .Three time if you are the Son of God I command you to change stone into bread .three time the Holy Father gave word to Jesus .as it is written again and again. (sola scriptura)

Parables the deeper hidden level of understanding they do not change the historical but they do add honey to the mix . A little digging the pearl of the greatest price---

Christ has not left us without the mixing tools needed to interpret or rightly divide His parables

 

[bobinfaith]

We serve a God who hides (invisible) "Let there be" and reveals His love and as it was seen "was God alone golden good." the law of powerful faith (believing something will appear when declared "Let there be"
Parables are prophecy that hides the spiritual unseen understanding from the god of this world. The father of lying signs that cause men to wonder, wonder, wonder after just as if true prophecy the father of lies not subject to the mysteries of faith--- hid in parables .
-Christ has not left us without the mixing tools needed to interpret or rightly divide His parables

Good morning, Mr. GLee;

The amazing beauty of the Word of God is everytime I read or listen to others share in fellowship,

there is always Good News on the table, new and good to learn from.

God bless you, brother, and thank you for sharing.

bobinfaith

 

[David]

I would offer it would seem the word "without" when describing the work of parables has become. . some times He spoke in parables .

Matthew 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

We serve a God who hides (invisible) "Let there be" and reveals His love and as it was seen "was God alone golden good." the law of powerful faith (believing something will appear when declared "Let there be"

Isaiah 45:15 Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.

Parables are prophecy that hides the spiritual unseen understanding from the god of this world. The father of lying signs that cause men to wonder, wonder, wonder after just as if true prophecy the father of lies not subject to the mysteries of faith--- hid in parables .

Parables the mixing of the temporal things seen the historical. They must be mixed with the unseen eternal things of Christ or there can be no gospel rest---- The rest---the understanding of the mysteries of Christ's powerful faithfulness.

Parables the hidden understanding of Christ .Hid from Satan the iffy god .Three time if you are the Son of God I command you to change stone into bread .three time the Holy Father gave word to Jesus .as it is written again and again. (sola scriptura)

Parables the deeper hidden level of understanding they do not change the historical but they do add honey to the mix . A little digging the pearl of the greatest price---

Christ has not left us without the mixing tools needed to interpret or rightly divide His parables

You are mixing things Scripture never mixes. Jesus used parables, yes, but parables were not given to create hidden mystical layers of meaning. Jesus Himself explained why He used them. He said, “I speak to them in parables because seeing they see not, and hearing they hear not” ~Matthew 13:13. The purpose was judgment on unbelief and clarity for the disciples, not secret spiritual codes.


You also quoted Matthew 13:34, but notice that Jesus still explained His parables plainly to His disciples. “Then He explained all things to His disciples” ~Mark 4:34. That means nothing hidden was meant to stay hidden for the believer. The meaning is revealed in the Scripture itself.


Parables are not prophecy concealed from Satan. Scripture never teaches that. Jesus resisted Satan simply by saying “It is written” ~Matthew 4:4. The power is in the Word, not in mystical layers.


You also said the gospel “must be mixed” with deeper spiritual levels. That is not what the Bible teaches. The gospel is revealed, not mixed. “The mystery which had been hid… is now made manifest to His saints” ~Colossians 1:26. God is not hiding the truth from His children. He reveals Christ by His Word.


We rightly divide Scripture by letting Scripture interpret Scripture, not by adding symbolic blends or unseen layers. The Word is clear. “The entrance of Thy words gives light” ~Psalm 119:130.


Let’s stay with what God has actually said, not with ideas the Bible does not teach.

 

[Mr. GLee]

You are mixing things Scripture never mixes. Jesus used parables, yes, but parables were not given to create hidden mystical layers of meaning. Jesus Himself explained why He used them. He said, “I speak to them in parables because seeing they see not, and hearing they hear not” ~Matthew 13:13. The purpose was judgment on unbelief and clarity for the disciples, not secret spiritual codes.


You also quoted Matthew 13:34, but notice that Jesus still explained His parables plainly to His disciples. “Then He explained all things to His disciples” ~Mark 4:34. That means nothing hidden was meant to stay hidden for the believer. The meaning is revealed in the Scripture itself.


Parables are not prophecy concealed from Satan. Scripture never teaches that. Jesus resisted Satan simply by saying “It is written” ~Matthew 4:4. The power is in the Word, not in mystical layers.


You also said the gospel “must be mixed” with deeper spiritual levels. That is not what the Bible teaches. The gospel is revealed, not mixed. “The mystery which had been hid… is now made manifest to His saints” ~Colossians 1:26. God is not hiding the truth from His children. He reveals Christ by His Word.


We rightly divide Scripture by letting Scripture interpret Scripture, not by adding symbolic blends or unseen layers. The Word is clear. “The entrance of Thy words gives light” ~Psalm 119:130.


Let’s stay with what God has actually said, not with ideas the Bible does not teach.

Hi Thanks for the reply

Not the most popular stance on parables but does seem to work out according to sola scriptura.

From my own experience of a non-reader at 33 When I began to read it was confusion from the start. I think developed my appreciation of the parable . Giving meaning to faithfully declaring "Let there be" Light. God is Light and not that he can only create it temporally under the Sun .The in the beginning "Let there be" Christ coming n the scene . His Spirit of light left on the 3rd day--- day four the temporal.

Scripture written by a invisible God who hides himself and reveals himself by the light of his word working in parables---- the hidden the spiritual understanding of Faithful Christ our teaching good master hiding from Satan the king of lying sins to wonder, wonder, wonder after---- just as if God was still inspiring new prophecy .

Sign and lying wonders on the rise today .It would seem some are afraid to do the work of rightly dividing the parables mixing the the temporal dying thing or historical with the unseen eternal gospel understanding .

In that way parables do not change the temporal historical but do enrich it like honey for the born again believer

Christ our husband has not left us as orphan without the proper parable interpreting or mixing tool

2 Corinthians 4:18;While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things (historical) which are seen are temporal; but the things (faith) which are not seen are eternal.

I would suggest don't start a bible study without the recipe above

Hebrew 4 :1-2 informs us if mankind fail to mix the two Historical temporal with spiritual unseen eternal----then they do not receive the gospel rest .The parable remains a mystery of Christ's Faithfulness . . . .the unseen thing of God who is Light and not only can he create it temporal .

Hebrews 4Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. ;For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

The word without, I beleive should be a clue it does not say at times or sometimes he spoke in parables hid from the father of lies but does say without .

The word without used 385 times ---it means exactly what it says

Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Genesis 6:14Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.

Matthew 13:34All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

Mark 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

The Word is clearly --- seen by the Psalm 119:130 parable “acknowledging God who is light as Emanuel (God with us) when His Holy Spirit of light works with our dark hearts we are given the ---"Let there be light" as God entering his creation revealed by Him again who light--- light of his knowlgge

The entrance of Thy words gives light” ~Psalm 119:130.

2 Corinthians 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

Rather than seeking after lying signs that cause wonderment, marveling (not believing )as a anchor to one new born agin soul) Just as if God was still bringing new prophecy.

God sent them a strong delusion that they might continue to believe the lying sign and wonder of the father of lies. rather than the parables .I would say study make the gospel understanding hid in parables great still .

2 Thessalonians 2:9;Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,;And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.;And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Satan working over time today trying to destroy the light of the word sola scriptura .The--- "let there be light good will" of the Holy Father

 

[David]

Not the most popular stance on parables but does seem to work out according to sola scriptura.

We’ve already gone through these points together, and the Scriptures have already given the answer. The Bible never teaches the system you keep describing. It never tells us to mix historical events with symbolic layers, or to use parables as hidden codes for deeper meaning. We have already shown this from the passages themselves, and the Word of God settles the matter.

Jesus explained His parables plainly to His disciples. “He explained all things to His disciples” ~Mark 4:34. Nothing remained hidden for the believer. That truth does not change no matter how many times we revisit this conversation.

Hebrews 4:2 is not about blending the temporal with the spiritual. It says the Word did not profit them because it was “not mixed with faith.” Scripture defines the issue as unbelief, not lack of symbolic interpretation. This has already been answered from the text.

The Bible never once says parables were meant to hide truth from Satan. Jesus resisted Satan with “It is written” ~Matthew 4:4, not with coded messages. Again, this point has already been addressed from the verses themselves.

At this stage you are repeating the same ideas even after Scripture has answered them plainly. Paul warned about this pattern when he wrote about those who “turn aside unto fables” ~2 Timothy 4:4. When someone keeps returning to symbolic systems the Bible never teaches, the issue is no longer lack of explanation. It is whether we will submit to what God has already said.

The entrance of His words gives light ~Psalm 119:130. Not hidden layers. Not mixtures. Not interpretive recipes. Just His Word as He gave it.

The biblical answers have already been given. Let’s stay with Scripture alone.

 

[Yesua888]

Parables are prophecy that hides the spiritual unseen understanding from the god of this world. The father of lying signs that cause men to wonder, wonder, wonder after just as if true prophecy the father of lies not subject to the mysteries of faith--- hid in parables .

Then do parables not hide the spiritual unseen understanding from God's children?

Christ has not left us without the mixing tools needed to interpret or rightly divide His parables

Would you please explain what you mean by this last sentence?
Thanks Linda

 

[David]

Then do parables not hide the spiritual unseen understanding from God's children?

Would you please explain what you mean by this last sentence?
Thanks Linda

I would like to fill you in on what's going on with Mr. GLee. He has been banned from the forum. This was not an impulsive decision. I counseled him countless times to stop teaching things that could not be found in Scripture. He would not listen, he continued to promote symbolic systems and private interpretations that the Bible never taught, and he refused to keep his posts within the plain text of God's Word. When a person continues to spout false doctrine after repeated rebuke, the Scripture tells us to separate from that type of behavior ~Titus 3:10.

Now, in terms of what he was teaching, none of it lines up with the Bible. Jesus said that He spoke in parables to open the eyes of His disciples, and to judge the hard-hearted that refused to listen ~Matthew 13:10-17. Parables do not provide hidden tools or secret codes. They use simple earthly illustrations to reveal clear spiritual truth. The disciples did not decode or mix anything. Jesus plainly told them the meaning ~Matthew 13:36.

His final sentence, where he says "mix the tools" is his own private creation. The Bible never says that Christ gave us special methods to unlock hidden messages inside parables. The only way to correctly understand anything Jesus taught is to read it in context, and to compare it with the rest of Scripture. God's Word is intended to be understood, not decoded ~Psalm 119:105.

The issue is really quite simple. He would not stop teaching things that could not be found in the Bible, and he would not accept correction. That is why his account was removed. My goal is to protect this forum so that the discussions remain rooted in Scripture, and not in personal imagination.

If you have any additional questions about any of this, you are free to ask.

 

[bobinfaith]

Then do parables not hide the spiritual unseen understanding from God's children?

Would you please explain what you mean by this last sentence?
Thanks Linda

I would like to fill you in on what's going on with Mr. GLee. He has been banned from the forum. This was not an impulsive decision. I counseled him countless times to stop teaching things that could not be found in Scripture. He would not listen, he continued to promote symbolic systems and private interpretations that the Bible never taught, and he refused to keep his posts within the plain text of God's Word. When a person continues to spout false doctrine after repeated rebuke, the Scripture tells us to separate from that type of behavior ~Titus 3:10.

Now, in terms of what he was teaching, none of it lines up with the Bible. Jesus said that He spoke in parables to open the eyes of His disciples, and to judge the hard-hearted that refused to listen ~Matthew 13:10-17. Parables do not provide hidden tools or secret codes. They use simple earthly illustrations to reveal clear spiritual truth. The disciples did not decode or mix anything. Jesus plainly told them the meaning ~Matthew 13:36.

His final sentence, where he says "mix the tools" is his own private creation. The Bible never says that Christ gave us special methods to unlock hidden messages inside parables. The only way to correctly understand anything Jesus taught is to read it in context, and to compare it with the rest of Scripture. God's Word is intended to be understood, not decoded ~Psalm 119:105.

The issue is really quite simple. He would not stop teaching things that could not be found in the Bible, and he would not accept correction. That is why his account was removed. My goal is to protect this forum so that the discussions remain rooted in Scripture, and not in personal imagination.

If you have any additional questions about any of this, you are free to ask.

Good morning, Linda and David;

I say this in general to all believers. When a brother or sister is asked a question or refuted for an error, it's wise to listen, it can't hurt and there is benefit in correction. But when the person doesn't pay attention or ignores and continues, it's obstinance.

Proverbs 10:17, 17 Whoever heeds discipline shows the way to life, but whoever ignores correction leads others astray. - NIV

bobinfaith

 

[Yesua888]

I would like to fill you in on what's going on with Mr. GLee. He has been banned from the forum. This was not an impulsive decision. I counseled him countless times to stop teaching things that could not be found in Scripture. He would not listen, he continued to promote symbolic systems and private interpretations that the Bible never taught, and he refused to keep his posts within the plain text of God's Word. When a person continues to spout false doctrine after repeated rebuke, the Scripture tells us to separate from that type of behavior ~Titus 3:10.

Now, in terms of what he was teaching, none of it lines up with the Bible. Jesus said that He spoke in parables to open the eyes of His disciples, and to judge the hard-hearted that refused to listen ~Matthew 13:10-17. Parables do not provide hidden tools or secret codes. They use simple earthly illustrations to reveal clear spiritual truth. The disciples did not decode or mix anything. Jesus plainly told them the meaning ~Matthew 13:36.

His final sentence, where he says "mix the tools" is his own private creation. The Bible never says that Christ gave us special methods to unlock hidden messages inside parables. The only way to correctly understand anything Jesus taught is to read it in context, and to compare it with the rest of Scripture. God's Word is intended to be understood, not decoded ~Psalm 119:105.

The issue is really quite simple. He would not stop teaching things that could not be found in the Bible, and he would not accept correction. That is why his account was removed. My goal is to protect this forum so that the discussions remain rooted in Scripture, and not in personal imagination.

If you have any additional questions about any of this, you are free to ask.

Thank you David ... this is indeed a relief and confirmation that you are keeping a keen eye on the ball ... so many forums allow anyone onto their platforms. The question always arose in my mind, as to why this was. Could it be that admin/moderators want to reach out to as many as possible, in the hopes that they might learn something and find Jesus? The feeling left for those of Love Jesus, and want the Truth, is that these "intruders" are there to be a menace, and this spoils things for everyone else. A fine balance for Admin maybe, and I would say it is a learned and practise skill to truly let Holy Spirit guide the way. You are appreciated David, for protecting this Forum : ) Linda

 

[David]

Thank you David ... this is indeed a relief and confirmation that you are keeping a keen eye on the ball ... so many forums allow anyone onto their platforms. The question always arose in my mind, as to why this was. Could it be that admin/moderators want to reach out to as many as possible, in the hopes that they might learn something and find Jesus? The feeling left for those of Love Jesus, and want the Truth, is that these "intruders" are there to be a menace, and this spoils things for everyone else. A fine balance for Admin maybe, and I would say it is a learned and practise skill to truly let Holy Spirit guide the way. You are appreciated David, for protecting this Forum : ) Linda

Linda, thanks for saying that. That does mean a lot. And the simple purpose of this forum is...keep everything rooted in the Word. God commands us to guard the truth. Protect the flock from anything that diverts people away from Scripture ~Acts 20:28-30. That responsibility is not optional.

You're right. There is a balance. We want people to hear the gospel. We want people to grow in Christ. But the Bible is clear that false doctrine spreads like leaven and it can damage and destroy many lives if it is not addressed ~Galatians 5:9. When someone refuses correction and they continue to push ideas that are not in the Bible, then the loving thing to do is to do what Scripture commands. Warn them. Call them to repentance. If they will not stop, then remove them for the good of the body ~Titus 3:10. That is not cruel. That is obedience.

A lot of forums open the doors wide because they want big numbers which helps sell the ads on their site. Or maybe they just hope that if they allow anything in, maybe someone will just stumble toward Jesus. But Scripture never says to sacrifice truth for the sake of traffic. Scripture never tells us to look the other way when people start teaching error in hopes that something good might happen. Paul warned that wolves will come in and they will not spare the flock ~Acts 20:29. He told Timothy to charge certain people not to teach anything outside of sound doctrine ~1 Timothy 1:3. The mission has not changed. Hold fast to the truth and protect the body from confusion.

We do absolutely want unbelievers to hear the gospel. We want seekers to find Christ. But that only happens when the Word of God is clear. Faith comes by hearing the Word ~Romans 10:17. If Scripture is drowned out by private interpretations or error, then people are not helped. People are misled. So the approach here is just straight forward. Open the door to anyone who wants truth. Speak the gospel clearly to anyone who will listen. But do not give a platform to teaching that contradicts what God has spoken.

That is the exact reason I created this forum. I looked for a long time and I could not find a Christian forum where false teachers were not dominating the conversations and pushing ideas that the Bible never taught. Most places either ignore it or act like it does not matter. But Scripture says it matters. We are commanded to contend for the faith ~Jude 1:3 and we are warned that many will be led astray if truth is not guarded ~2 Peter 2:1 through 2.

My aim here is not to shut people out. My aim is to keep the conversations rooted in what God actually said. When that is the priority, then believers are strengthened. Seekers see the clarity of God's Word. And Christ is honored. This forum exists so that believers can talk openly. We can study the Scriptures together and we can stay grounded in the truth. That has always been the purpose.

 

[Yesua888]

Linda, thanks for saying that. That does mean a lot. And the simple purpose of this forum is...keep everything rooted in the Word. God commands us to guard the truth. Protect the flock from anything that diverts people away from Scripture ~Acts 20:28-30. That responsibility is not optional.

You're right. There is a balance. We want people to hear the gospel. We want people to grow in Christ. But the Bible is clear that false doctrine spreads like leaven and it can damage and destroy many lives if it is not addressed ~Galatians 5:9. When someone refuses correction and they continue to push ideas that are not in the Bible, then the loving thing to do is to do what Scripture commands. Warn them. Call them to repentance. If they will not stop, then remove them for the good of the body ~Titus 3:10. That is not cruel. That is obedience.

A lot of forums open the doors wide because they want big numbers which helps sell the ads on their site. Or maybe they just hope that if they allow anything in, maybe someone will just stumble toward Jesus. But Scripture never says to sacrifice truth for the sake of traffic. Scripture never tells us to look the other way when people start teaching error in hopes that something good might happen. Paul warned that wolves will come in and they will not spare the flock ~Acts 20:29. He told Timothy to charge certain people not to teach anything outside of sound doctrine ~1 Timothy 1:3. The mission has not changed. Hold fast to the truth and protect the body from confusion.

We do absolutely want unbelievers to hear the gospel. We want seekers to find Christ. But that only happens when the Word of God is clear. Faith comes by hearing the Word ~Romans 10:17. If Scripture is drowned out by private interpretations or error, then people are not helped. People are misled. So the approach here is just straight forward. Open the door to anyone who wants truth. Speak the gospel clearly to anyone who will listen. But do not give a platform to teaching that contradicts what God has spoken.

That is the exact reason I created this forum. I looked for a long time and I could not find a Christian forum where false teachers were not dominating the conversations and pushing ideas that the Bible never taught. Most places either ignore it or act like it does not matter. But Scripture says it matters. We are commanded to contend for the faith ~Jude 1:3 and we are warned that many will be led astray if truth is not guarded ~2 Peter 2:1 through 2.

My aim here is not to shut people out. My aim is to keep the conversations rooted in what God actually said. When that is the priority, then believers are strengthened. Seekers see the clarity of God's Word. And Christ is honored. This forum exists so that believers can talk openly. We can study the Scriptures together and we can stay grounded in the truth. That has always been the purpose.

Thank you David,
I am learning so much, and the study of the bible is coming to LIFE for me.
You take so much time and effort to inform us.
Loving being here
Linda

 

[Yesua888]

If you say it wasn't 7 literal days, then it could be stretched to 7 million years and evolution shoe horned into the picture....

Hi Hobie,
Are there Bible verses that are not clear or literal about 7 days. Is it possible that "7000 days" = 7 days in God's timeline? In the past, I have seen comments on Youtube videos, as well as Youtube videos that claim that "God's timing is different from ours"? It would be good to go into this, to find out the Truth of God's Timeline : )
I must say that I find the "studies" fascinating, and sometimes, a bit "off topic" : )
It is good to hear the comments of David an BobInFaith ...
However, I often get lost, because the "study" changes so much, as the responses come in : )
Maybe God's Timing is a whole other topic of discussion?
Linda