The Fall of Satan

[Rose]

When exactly did Satan fall from heaven?

 

[Yesua888]

When exactly did Satan fall from heaven?

First, to set the scene, then the timeline:

• Isaiah 14:12–15: Describes the fall of the "morning star" (Helel), which many interpret as a reference to Satan’s prideful rebellion against God.
• Ezekiel 28:12–19: Speaks of the "king of Tyre," a figure often seen as symbolizing Satan’s original state of perfection and subsequent fall due to pride.
• The Bible verse that explicitly mentions the "sons of God" (angels) rejoicing at the dawn of the earth is Job 38:7, which states: "When the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" This verse is part of God’s response to Job, describing the moment when the foundations of the earth were laid, and celestial beings—interpreted as angels—celebrated the creation.
• The serpent in the Garden of Eden is not explicitly named as Satan in Genesis, but is later identified with him in the New Testament. Satan and his angels fell before the foundations of the Earth were laid (explained further down) - 1st Fall!
  • In Genesis 3, the serpent is described as a crafty creature who tempts Eve, but it is not directly called Satan.
  • The clear identification comes in Revelation 12:9, which states:
    "And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world." This links the Eden serpent to Satan as the "ancient serpent."
• Luke 10:18 records Jesus saying: "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven," further affirming the fall of Satan and his spiritual forces. New Testament, therefore 1st or 2nd Fall?
• Revelation 12:7–9: Refers to a future war in heaven where Michael and his angels defeat Satan and his angels, casting them out of heaven to the earth. If Satan fell from heaven before God created the Earth and Man, does he get cast out again? This should explain it:
• This event marks the final expulsion of Satan from heaven, ending his access to the heavenly courts (cf. Job 1:6; Zechariah 3:1). While Satan’s moral fall happened earlier (Isaiah 14:12–15; Ezekiel 28:12–19), and his defeat was secured at the cross (Luke 10:18), his complete removal from heaven happens in the future.

Another question: is there backing for this timeline:
"Revelation 12:7–9 describes a future war in heaven that occurs at the midpoint of the seven-year tribulation period."

There is strong biblical and theological backing for the timeline that Revelation 12:7–9 describes a future war in heaven occurring at the midpoint of the seven-year tribulation period.

• Time markers in Revelation 12 align with the midpoint of the tribulation:
  • Revelation 12:6 states the woman (symbolizing Israel) flees into the wilderness for 1,260 days.
  • Revelation 12:14 repeats this period as "a time, and times, and half a time", which equals 3.5 years.
  • This period corresponds directly to the second half of Daniel’s seventieth week (Daniel 9:27), widely understood as the final 3.5 years of the tribulation—the "great tribulation" (Matthew 24:21). another topic for discussion later maybe - timeline of End Times and what seems to be panning out today?
    
• Satan’s expulsion follows immediately after this timeline:

• After the war in heaven (Rev. 12:7–9), Satan is cast to earth (Rev. 12:9), and Scripture states he now has "only a short time"
• Rev. 12:12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.
• This "short time" fits perfectly with the final 3.5 years of the tribulation, during which Satan intensifies his persecution of God’s people (Rev. 12:13–17).

Following on from Revelation 12:7–9
We know that Satan and his angels get thrown down to earth "before the foundation of the earth" and then "at End Times" ... wait!?
Then there is this verse:
Jude 1:6 "And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day." This passage directly identifies the fallen angels as those who abandoned their heavenly position—paralleling the "sons of God" in Genesis 6. Does this happen in Heaven or on Earth ... and is this the 2nd Fall?

Anyway, this is an interesting study, and keeps opening up to more and more study
Recapping the Falls:
Many theologians interpret Luke 10:18 and Revelation 12:7–9 as referring to distinct events in Satan’s downfall—potentially two separate "falls":

1. First Fall – Original Rebellion
   Satan’s initial fall occurred when he rebelled against God due to pride, before humanity’s creation. This is described symbolically in Isaiah 14:12–15 (addressing the king of Babylon, but interpreted as referring to Lucifer) and Ezekiel 28:12–17 (addressing the king of Tyre, but seen as pointing to Satan’s origin). These passages depict his creation, perfection, pride, and expulsion from God’s presence.
2. Second Fall – Expulsion from Heaven During the Tribulation
   Revelation 12:7–9 describes a future event where Satan is cast out of heavenly access during the end times: “And the great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.” This is seen as a final removal of his ability to accuse believers before God (cf. Job 1:6; Rev. 12:10).
3. Luke 10:18 – Prophetic Vision of Defeat
   When Jesus says, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven,” He may be referencing the certainty of Satan’s defeat—either foreseeing his ultimate expulsion (Revelation 12), or affirming the spiritual victory already accomplished through His ministry. Some interpret this as Satan losing authority as the disciples cast out demons in Jesus’ name.

 

[David]

I appreciate the careful study given to this. Those verses do cause us to ponder. My only hesitation is that we may be forcing them into a detailed chronology that Scripture never intended to give us.

We do know exactly what Scripture says about a few things. Satan was created upright then fell in pride, "thou wast perfect in thy ways... till iniquity was found in thee" ~Ezekiel 28:15, and "I will ascend... I will be like the most High" ~Isaiah 14:13-14. By Genesis 3 he is the tempter, so his rebellion took place after creation and before man's fall. Scripture doesn't go into exact detail about when any of these events may have taken place outside of that.

When Jesus says, "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven" ~Luke 10:18 and we see him cast down in Revelation and finally judged into the lake of fire ~Rev 12:9; 20:10, Scripture tells us of the certainty of his defeat and destruction, but does not place these into individual original falls or a prophetic timetable.

For these reasons, I believe we rest safest with holding tightly to what is said and applying caution where Scripture is silent. "The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us" ~Deuteronomy 29:29.

 

[Yesua888]

I appreciate the careful study given to this. Those verses do cause us to ponder. My only hesitation is that we may be forcing them into a detailed chronology that Scripture never intended to give us.

We do know exactly what Scripture says about a few things. Satan was created upright then fell in pride, "thou wast perfect in thy ways... till iniquity was found in thee" ~Ezekiel 28:15, and "I will ascend... I will be like the most High" ~Isaiah 14:13-14. By Genesis 3 he is the tempter, so his rebellion took place after creation and before man's fall. Scripture doesn't go into exact detail about when any of these events may have taken place outside of that.

When Jesus says, "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven" ~Luke 10:18 and we see him cast down in Revelation and finally judged into the lake of fire ~Rev 12:9; 20:10, Scripture tells us of the certainty of his defeat and destruction, but does not place these into individual original falls or a prophetic timetable.

For these reasons, I believe we rest safest with holding tightly to what is said and applying caution where Scripture is silent. "The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us" ~Deuteronomy 29:29.

Thank you David,
14 So the LORD God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this, “Cursed are you above all livestock and all wild animals! You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.”
"Ultimately Biblical enmity underscores the spiritual separation caused by sin, but also points to the redemptive work of Christ, who provides reconciliation and peace" Definition: "Enmity means intense hostility and comes from the same Latin root as enemy, and means the state of being an enemy."
16 To the woman he said, “I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.”
17 To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’ “Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat food from it all the days of your life.
18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return.”

Is God Harsh and "unforgiving""

God always leaves an "exit door" / an escape route ... He always throws us a "live line" ...
As stated in Romans 3:26, God is both "just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
"The sacrifice of Christ satisfies divine justice, allowing God to forgive sinners without compromising His holiness. This is the ultimate "life line"
Jesus’ death and resurrection—offering salvation to all who believe, even while sinners remain under God’s wrath.

 

[Dave Bannister]

First, to set the scene, then the timeline:

• Isaiah 14:12–15: Describes the fall of the "morning star" (Helel), which many interpret as a reference to Satan’s prideful rebellion against God.
• Ezekiel 28:12–19: Speaks of the "king of Tyre," a figure often seen as symbolizing Satan’s original state of perfection and subsequent fall due to pride.
• The Bible verse that explicitly mentions the "sons of God" (angels) rejoicing at the dawn of the earth is Job 38:7, which states: "When the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" This verse is part of God’s response to Job, describing the moment when the foundations of the earth were laid, and celestial beings—interpreted as angels—celebrated the creation.
• The serpent in the Garden of Eden is not explicitly named as Satan in Genesis, but is later identified with him in the New Testament. Satan and his angels fell before the foundations of the Earth were laid (explained further down) - 1st Fall!
  • In Genesis 3, the serpent is described as a crafty creature who tempts Eve, but it is not directly called Satan.
  • The clear identification comes in Revelation 12:9, which states:
    "And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world." This links the Eden serpent to Satan as the "ancient serpent."
• Luke 10:18 records Jesus saying: "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven," further affirming the fall of Satan and his spiritual forces. New Testament, therefore 1st or 2nd Fall?
• Revelation 12:7–9: Refers to a future war in heaven where Michael and his angels defeat Satan and his angels, casting them out of heaven to the earth. If Satan fell from heaven before God created the Earth and Man, does he get cast out again? This should explain it:
• This event marks the final expulsion of Satan from heaven, ending his access to the heavenly courts (cf. Job 1:6; Zechariah 3:1). While Satan’s moral fall happened earlier (Isaiah 14:12–15; Ezekiel 28:12–19), and his defeat was secured at the cross (Luke 10:18), his complete removal from heaven happens in the future.

Another question: is there backing for this timeline:
"Revelation 12:7–9 describes a future war in heaven that occurs at the midpoint of the seven-year tribulation period."

There is strong biblical and theological backing for the timeline that Revelation 12:7–9 describes a future war in heaven occurring at the midpoint of the seven-year tribulation period.

• Time markers in Revelation 12 align with the midpoint of the tribulation:
  • Revelation 12:6 states the woman (symbolizing Israel) flees into the wilderness for 1,260 days.
  • Revelation 12:14 repeats this period as "a time, and times, and half a time", which equals 3.5 years.
  • This period corresponds directly to the second half of Daniel’s seventieth week (Daniel 9:27), widely understood as the final 3.5 years of the tribulation—the "great tribulation" (Matthew 24:21). another topic for discussion later maybe - timeline of End Times and what seems to be panning out today?
• Satan’s expulsion follows immediately after this timeline:
• After the war in heaven (Rev. 12:7–9), Satan is cast to earth (Rev. 12:9), and Scripture states he now has "only a short time"
• Rev. 12:12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.
• This "short time" fits perfectly with the final 3.5 years of the tribulation, during which Satan intensifies his persecution of God’s people (Rev. 12:13–17).

Following on from Revelation 12:7–9
We know that Satan and his angels get thrown down to earth "before the foundation of the earth" and then "at End Times" ... wait!?
Then there is this verse:
Jude 1:6 "And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day." This passage directly identifies the fallen angels as those who abandoned their heavenly position—paralleling the "sons of God" in Genesis 6. Does this happen in Heaven or on Earth ... and is this the 2nd Fall?

Anyway, this is an interesting study, and keeps opening up to more and more study
Recapping the Falls:
Many theologians interpret Luke 10:18 and Revelation 12:7–9 as referring to distinct events in Satan’s downfall—potentially two separate "falls":

1. First Fall – Original Rebellion
   Satan’s initial fall occurred when he rebelled against God due to pride, before humanity’s creation. This is described symbolically in Isaiah 14:12–15 (addressing the king of Babylon, but interpreted as referring to Lucifer) and Ezekiel 28:12–17 (addressing the king of Tyre, but seen as pointing to Satan’s origin). These passages depict his creation, perfection, pride, and expulsion from God’s presence.
2. Second Fall – Expulsion from Heaven During the Tribulation
   Revelation 12:7–9 describes a future event where Satan is cast out of heavenly access during the end times: “And the great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.” This is seen as a final removal of his ability to accuse believers before God (cf. Job 1:6; Rev. 12:10).
3. Luke 10:18 – Prophetic Vision of Defeat
   When Jesus says, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven,” He may be referencing the certainty of Satan’s defeat—either foreseeing his ultimate expulsion (Revelation 12), or affirming the spiritual victory already accomplished through His ministry. Some interpret this as Satan losing authority as the disciples cast out demons in Jesus’ name.

• Revelation 12:7–9: Refers to a future war in heaven where Michael and his angels defeat Satan and his angels, casting them out of heaven to the earth. If Satan fell from heaven before God created the Earth and Man, does he get cast out again? This should explain it:
• This event marks the final expulsion of Satan from heaven, ending his access to the heavenly courts (cf. Job 1:6; Zechariah 3:1). While Satan’s moral fall happened earlier (Isaiah 14:12–15; Ezekiel 28:12–19), and his defeat was secured at the cross (Luke 10:18), his complete removal from heaven happens in the future.

This is why I can see Michael as being the restrainer. I know most people believe it's The Holy Spirit.

 

[bobinfaith]

• Revelation 12:7–9: Refers to a future war in heaven where Michael and his angels defeat Satan and his angels, casting them out of heaven to the earth. If Satan fell from heaven before God created the Earth and Man, does he get cast out again? This should explain it:
• This event marks the final expulsion of Satan from heaven, ending his access to the heavenly courts (cf. Job 1:6; Zechariah 3:1). While Satan’s moral fall happened earlier (Isaiah 14:12–15; Ezekiel 28:12–19), and his defeat was secured at the cross (Luke 10:18), his complete removal from heaven happens in the future.

This is why I can see Michael as being the restrainer. I know most people believe it's The Holy Spirit.

Good morning, Dave Bannister;

That's an interesting way of describing Michael as the restrainer. I've never heard it put that way.

It's a good belief that Michael was prompted by the Holy Spirit. Add that to the Biblical context, Michael was an archangel (chief messenger,) warrior protector and divinely called by God as you reference in Revelation 12:7-9.

In my understanding, it's all God whose anointing is unlimited.

God bless you, Dave Bannister.

Bob

 

[David]

God's promise ... so be it

Amen. Genesis 3:15 is the first promise of Christ. Right in the moment of the fall God announces the coming Redeemer who would crush the serpent. Scripture later explains it clearly, “For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil” ~1 John 3:8.

The curse shows the seriousness of sin, but the promise shows God already revealing salvation from the beginning.

 

[David]

• Revelation 12:7–9: Refers to a future war in heaven where Michael and his angels defeat Satan and his angels, casting them out of heaven to the earth. If Satan fell from heaven before God created the Earth and Man, does he get cast out again? This should explain it:
• This event marks the final expulsion of Satan from heaven, ending his access to the heavenly courts (cf. Job 1:6; Zechariah 3:1). While Satan’s moral fall happened earlier (Isaiah 14:12–15; Ezekiel 28:12–19), and his defeat was secured at the cross (Luke 10:18), his complete removal from heaven happens in the future.

This is why I can see Michael as being the restrainer. I know most people believe it's The Holy Spirit.

We have to tremble a bit before the text and refuse to be wiser than what God revealed. Paul speaks of a restrainer, but he does not name him. “Ye know what withholdeth… only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way” ~2 Thessalonians 2:6-7. The Holy Spirit could have easily said Michael. He could have said the Spirit. He did not. When God is silent, certainty becomes presumption.

The same caution applies to Luke 10:18. Christ says, “I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.” The context is the disciples returning after demons fled at His name. The point is the breaking of Satan’s dominion before the authority of Christ, not a chart of prophetic stages. We must not turn a declaration of Christ’s authority into a timeline God never outlined.

So we stand where Scripture stands. We hold firmly what is written and refuse to build doctrine out of inference. “The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us” ~Deuteronomy 29:29.

 

[Yesua888]

• Revelation 12:7–9: Refers to a future war in heaven where Michael and his angels defeat Satan and his angels, casting them out of heaven to the earth. If Satan fell from heaven before God created the Earth and Man, does he get cast out again? This should explain it:
• This event marks the final expulsion of Satan from heaven, ending his access to the heavenly courts (cf. Job 1:6; Zechariah 3:1). While Satan’s moral fall happened earlier (Isaiah 14:12–15; Ezekiel 28:12–19), and his defeat was secured at the cross (Luke 10:18), his complete removal from heaven happens in the future.

This is why I can see Michael as being the restrainer. I know most people believe it's The Holy Spirit.

Some argue that if the restrainer is "The Holy Spirit" and if there is a pre-trib "rapture" then there is nothing left to guide and protect God's children ... ?

The identity of the restrainer in 2 Thessalonians 2:6–7 remains a debated topic among biblical scholars, with no definitive consensus. The passage states that "the mystery of lawlessness is already at work," but a restraining force prevents the full revelation of the "man of lawlessness" (Antichrist) until the restrainer is removed.

The idea that the Holy Spirit restrains evil or Satan’s activity is an interpretive extension drawn from other theological contexts, particularly 2 Thessalonians 2:6–7, where a "restrainer" (often identified as the Holy Spirit working through the Church) holds back the full manifestation of lawlessness until the end times.

Let's explore Scripture:
John 16:7 states: "But I tell you the truth, it is for your benefit that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you."
This verse is a pivotal moment in Jesus’ farewell discourse, revealing that His departure—though sorrowful to His disciples—was essential for the coming of the Holy Spirit. The Greek term Parakletos (translated as "Advocate," "Comforter," or "Helper") refers to the Holy Spirit, who would be sent by Jesus after His ascension to guide, comfort, and empower believers.
While John 16:8 "And when He comes, He will convict the world in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment:" emphasizes the Spirit’s role in convicting the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment, some theologians connect this convicting work with a broader restraining influence on evil.

Could it be that there is a pre-tribulation, where the dead and the "remaining" (this is where my confusion comes in, because "remaining" to me seems to be indicating the end of the Tribulation?)

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 addresses the resurrection of the dead and the transformation of those who remain alive at Christ's return.
"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever."

I would like more input from others on this ... David / Bob ?

Thanks : )

 

[Dave Bannister]

Some argue that if the restrainer is "The Holy Spirit" and if there is a pre-trib "rapture" then there is nothing left to guide and protect God's children ... ?

The identity of the restrainer in 2 Thessalonians 2:6–7 remains a debated topic among biblical scholars, with no definitive consensus. The passage states that "the mystery of lawlessness is already at work," but a restraining force prevents the full revelation of the "man of lawlessness" (Antichrist) until the restrainer is removed.

The idea that the Holy Spirit restrains evil or Satan’s activity is an interpretive extension drawn from other theological contexts, particularly 2 Thessalonians 2:6–7, where a "restrainer" (often identified as the Holy Spirit working through the Church) holds back the full manifestation of lawlessness until the end times.

Let's explore Scripture:
John 16:7 states: "But I tell you the truth, it is for your benefit that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you."
This verse is a pivotal moment in Jesus’ farewell discourse, revealing that His departure—though sorrowful to His disciples—was essential for the coming of the Holy Spirit. The Greek term Parakletos (translated as "Advocate," "Comforter," or "Helper") refers to the Holy Spirit, who would be sent by Jesus after His ascension to guide, comfort, and empower believers.
While John 16:8 "And when He comes, He will convict the world in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment:" emphasizes the Spirit’s role in convicting the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment, some theologians connect this convicting work with a broader restraining influence on evil.

Could it be that there is a pre-tribulation, where the dead and the "remaining" (this is where my confusion comes in, because "remaining" to me seems to be indicating the end of the Tribulation?)

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 addresses the resurrection of the dead and the transformation of those who remain alive at Christ's return.
"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever."

I would like more input from others on this ... David / Bob ?

Thanks : )

I don't believe in the pre-trib rapture. I'm starting to believe that Michael is removed/taken out of the way, and satan with his angels come down. Then begins the great tribulation. The saints will go through the great tribulation. Many of us will die or be killed, but the dead in Christ rise first. Then those who are alive and remain will meet The Lord in the air then. I don't know when this will happen, but that's my understanding of it. It may not be popular, but I'm okay with that.

 

[David]

I would like more input from others on this ... David

Good questions. In 2 Thessalonians 2 Paul talks about a restrainer, but notice something important. He tells you what the restrainer does, not who the restrainer is. The man of sin cannot step onto the stage until God says the curtain can open: “only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way” ~2 Thessalonians 2:7. The spotlight is not on identifying the restrainer. The spotlight is on God’s authority over history. Nothing in the end times runs loose. It runs on schedule.

Now about the concern that believers would be left without guidance. Jesus already settled that before the cross. He said the Spirit “dwelleth with you, and shall be in you” ~John 14:17, and God promises, “I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee” ~Hebrews 13:5. So whatever happens in the last days, God’s people are never abandoned. The same God who saves keeps.

Then 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17. Paul is not giving a calendar chart. He’s comforting believers. Two groups exist when Christ appears: those asleep in Christ and those still breathing air. The dead rise first, then “we which are alive and remain” are caught up together with them. That word remain just separates the living from the dead at His coming. It’s not trying to map a tribulation timeline. It’s announcing a reunion.

So I think the takeaway is simply this, God controls the timing, Christ gathers His people, and the Spirit does not desert the saints. The passage is less about solving every detail and more about steadying your heart. The King has the schedule, and the family will be brought home when He arrives.

 

[brad45]

Ezekiel chapter 28.

Lucifer was chrub at one time in the first earth age. He protected the Mercy seat. Pride was his downfall, he wanted the Mercy seat, to be Messiah. God sentenced Satan to be turned into ashes on judgement day.

Jeremiah chapter 4:23-27 God destroyed first earth age, instead of destroying one third of His children who followed Satan in first earth age, revelation chapter 12, Satan drew one third to himself, rebellion against God.

Some scholars believe first earth age ended 25,000 year's ago.
Genesis chapter 1:2
Without form, in Hebrew means -;Tohu -va-bohu.
Chabel

2 Peter chapter 3:5-6

There was first earth age. At Satan's overthrow, world wide flood that destroyed everything and dinosaurs. There was great shaking and today we had four seasons year and hurricane and storms.

It will be rejuvenated at 7th trump. Its going back to prior age of sub tropical. This starts the millennium. In the tundra wooly mammoth mouths, butter cups found. These butter cups grow in sub tropical climate.

Revelation chapter 21, when full Godhead arrives on earth at end of the millennium, this is the third earth age.

I told the truth, and documented it.

 

[David]

Ezekiel chapter 28.

Lucifer was chrub at one time in the first earth age. He protected the Mercy seat. Pride was his downfall, he wanted the Mercy seat, to be Messiah. God sentenced Satan to be turned into ashes on judgement day.

Jeremiah chapter 4:23-27 God destroyed first earth age, instead of destroying one third of His children who followed Satan in first earth age, revelation chapter 12, Satan drew one third to himself, rebellion against God.

Some scholars believe first earth age ended 25,000 year's ago.
Genesis chapter 1:2
Without form, in Hebrew means -;Tohu -va-bohu.
Chabel

2 Peter chapter 3:5-6

There was first earth age. At Satan's overthrow, world wide flood that destroyed everything and dinosaurs. There was great shaking and today we had four seasons year and hurricane and storms.

It will be rejuvenated at 7th trump. Its going back to prior age of sub tropical. This starts the millennium. In the tundra wooly mammoth mouths, butter cups found. These butter cups grow in sub tropical climate.

Revelation chapter 21, when full Godhead arrives on earth at end of the millennium, this is the third earth age.

I told the truth, and documented it.

You didn’t get that from the text. You got that from a system and then laid it on top of the text.

That whole “first earth age,” pre-Genesis rebellion, dinosaurs tied to it, multiple ages… that teaching is straight out of Shepherd’s Chapel.

Now go back and read the verses in context.

Ezekiel 28 is about the king of Tyre. It does not say Satan guarded the mercy seat or that there was a prior world age.

Jeremiah 4:23–27 is describing judgment on the land. It uses creation language, but it tells you what it’s about. It never says a global destruction before Genesis.

Genesis 1:2 says the earth was without form and void. It does not say that condition came from a judgment or a previous age.

2 Peter 3:5–6 explains the flood. That is Noah’s world that perished, not some hidden prehistoric age.

Revelation 12 does not place a rebellion in a “first earth age.” That’s being inserted.

You’re connecting verses that are not talking about the same event and building something Scripture never actually says.

Scripture already warned about this: “not to think… above that which is written” ~1 Corinthians 4:6.

Saying “I told the truth” doesn’t make it so. The question is simple:

Where does the text actually say there was a first earth age?

If it’s not in the text, it doesn’t belong in doctrine.

 

[David]

Warning: “First Earth Age” Teaching Is Not Biblical

We are seeing teachings being pushed that claim a “first earth age,” a pre-Genesis world, and souls existing before this life.

That is not coming from Scripture.

It is being imported into the text and then forced onto verses that are not talking about the same thing.

The Word of God already gives the boundary: “not to think… above that which is written” ~1 Corinthians 4:6.

When someone builds doctrine on things the text never actually says, that is not deeper truth. That is adding to God’s Word.

“If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ… from such withdraw thyself” ~1 Timothy 6:3–5.

Let’s be clear:

There is no verse that teaches a “first earth age.”
There is no verse that says souls lived before this life.
There is no verse that places Satan’s rebellion before Genesis 1:2 as a destroyed world.

These are man-made systems, not biblical doctrine.

This forum stands on Sola Scriptura. If it cannot be shown plainly from the text, it does not belong here.

Stay in the Word. Test everything. Reject what goes beyond what God has written.

 

[brad45]

You didn’t get that from the text. You got that from a system and then laid it on top of the text.

That whole “first earth age,” pre-Genesis rebellion, dinosaurs tied to it, multiple ages… that teaching is straight out of Shepherd’s Chapel.

Now go back and read the verses in context.

Ezekiel 28 is about the king of Tyre. It does not say Satan guarded the mercy seat or that there was a prior world age.

Jeremiah 4:23–27 is describing judgment on the land. It uses creation language, but it tells you what it’s about. It never says a global destruction before Genesis.

Genesis 1:2 says the earth was without form and void. It does not say that condition came from a judgment or a previous age.

2 Peter 3:5–6 explains the flood. That is Noah’s world that perished, not some hidden prehistoric age.

Revelation 12 does not place a rebellion in a “first earth age.” That’s being inserted.

You’re connecting verses that are not talking about the same event and building something Scripture never actually says.

Scripture already warned about this: “not to think… above that which is written” ~1 Corinthians 4:6.

Saying “I told the truth” doesn’t make it so. The question is simple:

Where does the text actually say there was a first earth age?

If it’s not in the text, it doesn’t belong in doctrine.

Sir. I won't argue with you. I documented it and I don't appreciate your accusations. This is personal attack on me.

Its evidently obvious you have spirit of stupor. You can't understand deep truth of God's word.

Its sound doctrine and your distorting God's word to try to damage my credibility.

I don't appreciate your accusations and personal attacks.

I won't argue with you. I moved on.

 

[OceanLilly]

When exactly did Satan fall from heaven?

Before the creation of earth and man.
Which is why he was here to tempt Adam and Eve in Edens garden.

 

[David]

Sir. I won't argue with you. I documented it and I don't appreciate your accusations. This is personal attack on me.

Its evidently obvious you have spirit of stupor. You can't understand deep truth of God's word.

Its sound doctrine and your distorting God's word to try to damage my credibility.

I don't appreciate your accusations and personal attacks.

I won't argue with you. I moved on.

For everyone reading, this is what just happened.

He was asked a simple question: where does the text say there was a “first earth age”? You didn’t answer it. Instead, you went personal. “Spirit of stupor.” That’s not doctrine, that’s deflection.

Scripture warns about this: “If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words… he is proud, knowing nothing… whereof cometh envy, strife, railings” ~1 Timothy 6:3–4.

The issue is simple. That teaching is not in the text. It’s being inserted into it. “Not to think… above that which is written” ~1 Corinthians 4:6. For those reading, take note. When someone won’t stay with the text and shifts to personal attacks, they don’t have Scripture to stand on. So the question still stands: where does the Bible actually say there was a first earth age? If it’s not written, it’s not doctrine.

 

[David]

Before the creation of earth and man.
Which is why he was here to tempt Adam and Eve in Edens garden.

Scripture shows Satan present in Genesis 3, but it never states he fell before creation as a defined timeline. Jesus says, ‘I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven’ ~Luke 10:18, but no timing is given. So we should be careful not to go beyond what is written ~1 Corinthians 4:6

 

[OceanLilly]

Scripture shows Satan present in Genesis 3, but it never states he fell before creation as a defined timeline. Jesus says, ‘I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven’ ~Luke 10:18, but no timing is given. So we should be careful not to go beyond what is written ~1 Corinthians 4:6

My post is in line with what is written.
John 8:58“Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
This echoes God’s self-revelation to Exodus 3:14, in Exodus 3:24 “I AM WHO I AM.”

Jesus,in the New Testament,would say he saw Satan fall. Because he,God, cast him out of Heaven .

 

[David]

My post is in line with what is written.
John 8:58“Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
This echoes God’s self-revelation to Exodus 3:14, in Exodus 3:24 “I AM WHO I AM.”

Jesus,in the New Testament,would say he saw Satan fall. Because he,God, cast him out of Heaven .

No. That is not what the text says.

You are taking two true verses and forcing a conclusion that Scripture never actually states. John 8:58 proves Jesus is eternal. Luke 10:18 shows Satan fell. Neither verse gives you a timeline of “before creation.”

That part is coming from you, not the text.

This is exactly the problem. You keep inserting your own conclusions and then calling them “what is written.” It isn’t. “Not to think… above that which is written” ~1 Corinthians 4:6.

Stick to what the Bible actually says. Anything beyond that is you adding to it again.

 

[OceanLilly]

No. That is not what the text says.

You are taking two true verses and forcing a conclusion that Scripture never actually states. John 8:58 proves Jesus is eternal. Luke 10:18 shows Satan fell. Neither verse gives you a timeline of “before creation.”

That part is coming from you, not the text.

This is exactly the problem. You keep inserting your own conclusions and then calling them “what is written.” It isn’t. “Not to think… above that which is written” ~1 Corinthians 4:6.

Stick to what the Bible actually says. Anything beyond that is you adding to it again.

I'm not adding to scripture. I'm referring to what is in God's word.

 

[David]

I'm not adding to scripture. I'm referring to what is in God's word.

Saying “I’m not adding to Scripture” doesn’t settle it. The issue is whether the conclusion you’re drawing is actually stated in the text.

John 8:58 says, “Before Abraham was, I am.” That shows Christ’s eternal existence. Luke 10:18 says, “I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.” That shows Satan’s fall. Both are true.

But neither verse gives a timeline like you’re presenting. That connection is not in the text. That’s the problem.

If you’re not adding to Scripture, then where does the Bible actually say what you’re claiming?

Not implied. Not assumed. Not pieced together. Where is it written plainly?

 

[Yesua888]

Hi David I have just re-read your response to my questoins and have expanded what I should have said earlier, below:

Good questions. In 2 Thessalonians 2 Paul talks about a restrainer, but notice something important. He tells you what the restrainer does, not who the restrainer is. The man of sin cannot step onto the stage until God says the curtain can open: “only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way” ~2 Thessalonians 2:7. The spotlight is not on identifying the restrainer. The spotlight is on God’s authority over history. Nothing in the end times runs loose. It runs on schedule.

Now about the concern that believers would be left without guidance. Jesus already settled that before the cross. He said the Spirit “dwelleth with you, and shall be in you” ~John 14:17, and God promises, “I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee” ~Hebrews 13:5. So whatever happens in the last days, God’s people are never abandoned. The same God who saves keeps.
I was referring to my questoin of whether the restrainer is The Holy Spirit, and yes, if it is not spelt out in Scripture perhaps it does not matter. However there are many who are debating this and are wanting to know more (and may not get more?). Having raised this question of Holy Spirit being "the restrainer", it could well be Him, because he will go with us (believers and follows of Christ) at the End. If there are others left behind, then Holy Spirit may no longer be there.

 

[Yesua888]

Ezekiel chapter 28.

Lucifer was chrub at one time in the first earth age. He protected the Mercy seat.

Hi Bard,

Where are you getting this information, please?

Thanks : )

 

[Yesua888]

You didn’t get that from the text. You got that from a system and then laid it on top of the text.

That whole “first earth age,” pre-Genesis rebellion, dinosaurs tied to it, multiple ages… that teaching is straight out of Shepherd’s Chapel.

Now go back and read the verses in context.

Ezekiel 28 is about the king of Tyre. It does not say Satan guarded the mercy seat or that there was a prior world age.

Jeremiah 4:23–27 is describing judgment on the land. It uses creation language, but it tells you what it’s about. It never says a global destruction before Genesis.

Genesis 1:2 says the earth was without form and void. It does not say that condition came from a judgment or a previous age.

2 Peter 3:5–6 explains the flood. That is Noah’s world that perished, not some hidden prehistoric age.

Revelation 12 does not place a rebellion in a “first earth age.” That’s being inserted.

You’re connecting verses that are not talking about the same event and building something Scripture never actually says.

Scripture already warned about this: “not to think… above that which is written” ~1 Corinthians 4:6.

Saying “I told the truth” doesn’t make it so. The question is simple:

Where does the text actually say there was a first earth age?

If it’s not in the text, it doesn’t belong in doctrine.

It would appear that this information is outside of Scripture ... what could be the source/s (just to know why this is coming up)?

 

[Yesua888]

Sir. I won't argue with you. I documented it and I don't appreciate your accusations. This is personal attack on me.

Its evidently obvious you have spirit of stupor. You can't understand deep truth of God's word.

Its sound doctrine and your distorting God's word to try to damage my credibility.

I don't appreciate your accusations and personal attacks.

I won't argue with you. I moved on.

Hi Brad,

I have been re-reading the responses here ...

Nowhere has David been disrespectful ... his "duty" here is to keep us focused on Scripture.

I fail to see where "this is a personal attack", and rather see that you are being demeaning by saying "you have a spirit of stupor".

Where are you getting your information from, and can you quote what you have shared?

And please stop projecting ... this is not appreciated here.

As I said previously, BTF is Our Safe Place, where we share, respecfully disagree, and where we have learned how to back up our arguments, with the backing of Scripture (Bible).

In addition, here are "Study Notes" that have been added to many of our Bible versions, and this is a shame, as the translations of the original text has been altered in these notes. However, this is a topic all of it's own : )

Thanks Linda

 

[Yesua888]

No. That is not what the text says.

You are taking two true verses and forcing a conclusion that Scripture never actually states. John 8:58 proves Jesus is eternal. Luke 10:18 shows Satan fell. Neither verse gives you a timeline of “before creation.”

That part is coming from you, not the text.

This is exactly the problem. You keep inserting your own conclusions and then calling them “what is written.” It isn’t. “Not to think… above that which is written” ~1 Corinthians 4:6.

Stick to what the Bible actually says. Anything beyond that is you adding to it again.

Hi David,

This is also my interpretation, although it is not spelled out in the text, the serpent (dragon, satan) was in the garden. He was either "born" when man was or he was cast out of heaven before the earth was made?

The Bible does not contain a single verse that explicitly states Satan was cast out of heaven before the creation of the earth and man, but several passages are interpreted by theologians to support this timeline. Ezekiel 28:12-19 and Isaiah 14:12-14 describe the fall of Lucifer (Satan) due to pride and ambition, with context clues suggesting this occurred prior to human history.

The following biblical evidence is used to deduce the timing of Satan's fall:

• Ezekiel 28:12-19: Describes an "anointed cherub" who was perfect in beauty and wisdom from the day of his creation until iniquity was found in him. The text states he was in "Eden, the garden of God" and cast down from the "mountain of God," implying a fall before the Garden of Eden was established for humans. this could be argued?
• Isaiah 14:12-15: Portrays "Lucifer, son of the morning" who said, "I will ascend into heaven," and was brought down to "hell." This rebellion is viewed as the first sin, occurring before the temptation of Adam and Eve.
• Job 38:4-7: Indicates that the "sons of God" (angels) were present when God laid the foundation of the earth and shouted for joy, implying angels existed prior to Earth's formation, and their fall must have occurred after their creation but before the earth's final state. can we assume that the "cherub" (an angel) was also before the foundation of earth? some things seem very clear and others not so ...
• Luke 10:18: Jesus states, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven," which is interpreted as a reference to a past event, likely his initial rebellion. Jesus (God) is eternal ...
• Revelation 12:7-9: Describes a war in heaven where Satan is cast out, but many scholars believe this refers to a future event during the Tribulation, while the initial fall is the one inferred from Ezekiel and Isaiah.

Key Distinction: While the Bible confirms Satan was a fallen angel before the Fall of Man (Genesis 3), it does not explicitly state whether his fall happened before the earth was created (Genesis 1:1) or during the creation week. The consensus among many commentators is that Satan fell after his creation but before the creation of man, as he is the one who tempted Eve in Genesis 3.