Discern the Times: Lesson from the Fig Tree

[andrewsaba]

Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. - Mt 24:32

Since the great tsunami struck the world in 2004, we have witnessed an increasing number of global crises—earthquakes, extreme climate changes, floods, wars, and growing instability among nations. Conflicts such as Russia–Ukraine, tensions involving North Korea, turmoil in the Middle East, and widespread civil unrest have shaped our current era. Added to this are major challenges arising from large-scale migration affecting Europe and the United States.

From a biblical perspective, should we understand these events as the “birth pains” Jesus spoke of, or are we already living in the end times? How should Christians discern the signs without falling into fear or speculation?

Related to this, where might the Antichrist arise, according to Scripture? And do you believe the Temple in Israel will one day be rebuilt?

I would appreciate your thoughts and biblical insights on these questions.

 

[Yesua888]

Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. - Mt 24:32

Since the great tsunami struck the world in 2004, we have witnessed an increasing number of global crises—earthquakes, extreme climate changes, floods, wars, and growing instability among nations. Conflicts such as Russia–Ukraine, tensions involving North Korea, turmoil in the Middle East, and widespread civil unrest have shaped our current era. Added to this are major challenges arising from large-scale migration affecting Europe and the United States.

From a biblical perspective, should we understand these events as the “birth pains” Jesus spoke of, or are we already living in the end times? How should Christians discern the signs without falling into fear or speculation?

Related to this, where might the Antichrist arise, according to Scripture? And do you believe the Temple in Israel will one day be rebuilt?

I would appreciate your thoughts and biblical insights on these questions.

Hi A, This is a very interesting topic!

This topic has always been contraversial, therefore a hard one to answer. There seems to be some grey areas (open to interpretation) and there does not seem to be an actual timeline (date set) for End Times.

2 Peter 3:8 explicitly states that God’s time is not man’s time:
"But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."

However, in my humble opinion (imho), the "timeline" is graphic (for want of a better description):

The Rapture of the Church
Christ returns to “snatch away” believers (1 Thessalonians 4:16–17), taking them to heaven. This event is considered imminent and "precedes" the tribulation period. ? is this true ?

Could this mean that those who "remain" have already been through the Tribulation?

1. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17​

"For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout ... and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up... to meet the Lord in the air."​

This passage forms the core of the rapture doctrine. there are many interpretations on this?

The Rise of the Antichrist
After the rapture, a globally influential figure known as the Antichrist emerges, gaining power through promises of peace (2 Thessalonians 2:3–4; Daniel 9:27). some say he is staring us in the face ...

The Tribulation Period (7 Years)
A time of intense global suffering and divine judgment lasting seven years. It is divided into two phases:

• First 3.5 years: The Antichrist makes a covenant with Israel, but at the midpoint, he breaks it and sets up the “abomination of desolation” in the temple (Daniel 9:27; Matthew 24:15).
• Last 3.5 years (Great Tribulation): God pours out His wrath through the seals, trumpets, and bowls of judgment (Revelation 6–16).

I would venture to suggest that the Tribulation began on 7 October 2023, and by mid 2026 we could be at the half-way mark; by 2030, it is "game over" ?

Some say that it started when President Donald Trump signed the Abraham Accords with Israel on September 15, 2020 ...?

The Battle of Gog and Magog
A military invasion of Israel from the north, which God supernaturally defeats (Ezekiel 38–39). Some place this before the tribulation begins. Is this still to come or did it already begin?

The Second Coming of Christ
Jesus returns visibly and triumphantly at the end of the tribulation (Matthew 24:30; Revelation 19:11–16). He defeats the armies of the Antichrist at Armageddon, captures the Antichrist and false prophet, and casts them into the lake of fire (Revelation 19:20). There it is again, Jesus comes at the end. Could the above be incorrect where it is suggested that He "raptures" believers before the Tribulation ("precedes") ?
NB there is no word "rapture" in the Bible that I am aware of?

The Millennial Kingdom (1,000 Years)
Jesus reigns on Earth from Jerusalem, bringing peace and righteousness (Revelation 20:1–6) describes a vision of the binding of Satan and the millennial reign of the saints with Christ.

The Final Rebellion and Judgment
At the end of the millennium, Satan is released briefly, deceives nations, and leads a final revolt. This is quickly crushed, and Satan is cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:7–10).

The Great White Throne Judgment
All the wicked from all ages are resurrected and judged. Those whose names are not in the Book of Life are cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:11–15).

The New Creation
God creates a new heaven and a new earth. The New Jerusalem descends from heaven, and believers dwell eternally with God, free from pain, death, and sorrow (Revelation 21–22)

This is where I need some clarification:
Rev 20:1-6 Jesus reigns on Earth with his saints "binding of Satan and the millennial reign of the saints with Christ"
Revelation 21:1–5 is the primary Bible verse that describes the new heaven and new earth, the descent of the New Jerusalem from heaven, and the eternal dwelling of believers with God.
Am I interpreting this incorrectly by assuming that Jesus reigns for 1000 years with his his "saints", and then later the new heaven and earth and "new Jerusalem" descend again from heaven, to the new heaven and new earth?

 

[andrewsaba]

Hi Linda

Thank you for a very comprehensive explanation. And kudos for tackling a difficult topic.

I am aware of everything you have shared but it is not exactly the answer I seeking. Still, I enjoyed reading it and like to briefly engage with you on what you said before I explain my question.

Let me start with the last part of your discourse. Here is the order:
Second Coming → Satan Bound → 1,000-Year Reign → Satan Released → Final Judgment → New Heaven & New Earth

Bible reference for the above is given below:
Rev 19:11–21 → Rev 20:1–3 → Rev 20:4–6 → Rev 20:7–10 → Rev 20:11–15 → Rev 21:1–22:5

This the Premillennial view which I hold to.

As for 'rapture', some Christians believe in the rapture because passages like 1 Thessalonians 4:16–17 say believers will be “caught up” to meet the Lord, and they understand this to mean that Jesus will take Christians away before a time of great suffering on earth. They believe this shows God protecting His people and see it as a separate event from Christ’s final return. Others do not believe in a separate rapture, especially in the Reformed tradition, because they understand the same passage as describing what happens when Jesus returns once, openly and publicly, at the end of history. They believe Christians will face hardship, that Jesus’ return, the resurrection, and final judgment all happen together, and that the Bible does not clearly teach a secret or early removal of the Church.

I would like to believe that rapture will happen before the time of great suffering because the Holy Spirit resides in the church, the body of Christ. With no Christians, there is the absence of the Holy Spirit. Then, Satan will have a free reign. This may be wishful thinking.

You said:
I would venture to suggest that the Tribulation began on 7 October 2023, and by mid 2026 we could be at the half-way mark; by 2030, it is "game over" ? Some say that it started when President Donald Trump signed the Abraham Accords with Israel on September 15, 2020 ...?
I do not believe this to be the case because we need to look at the white horseman of the 4 horses mentioned in Rev 6:

The rider on the white horse in Revelation 6 is often understood, in Reformed teaching, not as Christ bringing real peace, but as a false or temporary peace. It looks convincing at first, but it comes before God’s judgment. Even so, the Bible suggests that this time includes some level of worldwide order or stability, which we do not see today. In addition, important signs that some people expect—such as the rebuilding of the Jewish temple—have not happened yet.

I would also add that during the 2nd half of the Great Tribulation, Christians will suffer immensely for their faith. Let us hope we are not around to experience that when it happens. Jesus said: If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.” - Mt 24:22

HOWEVER, my question was about discernment rather than end-times sequencing. What I was asking was whether the developments we see today could be understood as the beginning of the end Jesus spoke about—the “birth pains.” Are we seeing a moral climate increasingly like Sodom and Gomorrah, with the normalisation of abortion, the redefinition of marriage, radical woke ideology, pressure on Christians to conform, the erosion of objective truth, the breakdown of family values, and hostility toward faith in public life? I’m also wondering whether social media and AI are accelerating this moral decline.​

In short, how should Christians biblically assess these trends without falling into fear or speculation?

Andrew

 

[David]

I would appreciate your thoughts and biblical insights on these questions.

Jesus never told His followers to treat every crisis like the final countdown.

He actually warned the opposite. “Take heed that no man deceive you… ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars… but the end is not yet” ~Matthew 24:4-6. Then He says, “All these are the beginning of sorrows” ~Matthew 24:8.

So wars, disasters, and upheaval are not proof the last moment has arrived. They show the world is broken and moving toward judgment, but they are not the clock striking midnight. They describe the age, not the exact hour.

The fig tree picture is about paying attention, not trying to calculate dates. When the kinds of things He described begin appearing together, believers recognize the season. Yet at the same time He says, “of that day and hour knoweth no man” ~Matthew 24:36. Because of that, the focus turns away from predicting and toward living faithfully: “Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing” ~Matthew 24:46.

When Scripture speaks about antichrist, the emphasis is not identifying a country but guarding the truth about Christ. “Even now are there many antichrists” ~1 John 2:18 and “he is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son” ~1 John 2:22. The danger is deception about who Jesus is.

The New Testament also repeatedly calls God’s people His dwelling. “Ye are the temple of God” ~1 Corinthians 3:16 and believers are being built into “a spiritual house” ~1 Peter 2:5. While Scripture mentions a future man of sin sitting “in the temple of God” ~2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, believers are never told to track construction projects or build timelines from it. The consistent instruction is readiness and obedience.

The posture Scripture teaches is steady watchfulness, not speculation. “The day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night” ~1 Thessalonians 5:2, yet believers are told they should not be overtaken if they remain spiritually awake ~1 Thessalonians 5:4-6.

The message stays simple. Stay alert. Hold fast to the truth about Christ. Keep living faithfully until He comes.

 

[David]

In short, how should Christians biblically assess these trends without falling into fear or speculation?

Recognize the world is moving toward judgment, but live watchfully without trying to pinpoint the moment.

“Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not” ~Luke 12:40

 

[andrewsaba]

David

Thank you for this and for the Bible references. They are indeed most helpful.

“Be on guard, keep awake. For you do not know when the time will come.” - Mk 13:33

 

[Yesua888]

Thank you Andrew,
I am enjoying this dialogue ...
I will answer respond to you in green below : )

This the Premillennial view which I hold to.

As for 'rapture', some Christians believe in the rapture because passages like 1 Thessalonians 4:16–17 say believers will be “caught up” to meet the Lord, and they understand this to mean that Jesus will take Christians away before a time of great suffering on earth. They believe this shows God protecting His people and see it as a separate event from Christ’s final return. Others do not believe in a separate rapture, especially in the Reformed tradition, because they understand the same passage as describing what happens when Jesus returns once, openly and publicly, at the end of history. They believe Christians will face hardship, that Jesus’ return, the resurrection, and final judgment all happen together, and that the Bible does not clearly teach a secret or early removal of the Church. I am leaning towards the latter now : )​

One of the main reasons for me leaning on believers "being taken up" (saved) with Jesus at the End, is because my reasoning is telling me that we should be here to help God bring more of our brothers and sisters to Him, before the End.
Yes, further down another issue is brought up about "The Holy Spirit being removed ..."
Then there is this
Hebrews 9:28 is the key Bible passage that describes Jesus returning at the end times only once.
“So Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.” then there is Matthew ...

1. Matthew 24:27, 30–31 “For as lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. ... Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds.” ​

and this ...

Revelation 1:7 echoes this event: "Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him— even those who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. So shall it be! Amen." This verse explicitly links the mourning to those who rejected and crucified Jesus, emphasizing repentance and recognition of His divine identity.
The mourning at the end times does indicate judgment, and it is closely tied to the recognition of Jesus as the Messiah and the realization of divine judgment. This mourning reflects repentance and conviction, as people—especially those who rejected Christ—recognize Him as Lord at His return.
Zechariah 12:11 uses this historical mourning as a metaphor for the future, deep repentance of Israel (another topic for discussion "Israel") when they recognize the Messiah they pierced—pointing to a time of spiritual awakening and divine judgment. there is much to found on this, I am sure : )

I would like to believe that rapture will happen before the time of great suffering because the Holy Spirit resides in the church, the body of Christ. With no Christians, there is the absence of the Holy Spirit. Then, Satan will have a free reign. This may be wishful thinking. ​

2 Thessalonians 2:7 "For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way."
This verse indicates that the Holy Spirit, who currently restrains the "secret power of lawlessness" (i.e., Satan’s influence and the Antichrist), will cease this specific role when the Church is raptured—a moment often associated with the end of the Church Age. there is a lot of debate on this too! David is so good at exposing the Truth ...

You said:
I would venture to suggest that the Tribulation began on 7 October 2023, and by mid 2026 we could be at the half-way mark; by 2030, it is "game over" ? Some say that it started when President Donald Trump signed the Abraham Accords with Israel on September 15, 2020 ...?
I do not believe this to be the case because we need to look at the white horseman of the 4 horses mentioned in Rev 6:

The rider on the white horse in Revelation 6 is often understood, in Reformed teaching, not as Christ bringing real peace, but as a false or temporary peace. It looks convincing at first, but it comes before God’s judgment. Even so, the Bible suggests that this time includes some level of worldwide order or stability, which we do not see today. In addition, important signs that some people expect—such as the rebuilding of the Jewish temple—have not happened yet. do you have any scripture on this?

I would also add that during the 2nd half of the Great Tribulation, Christians will suffer immensely for their faith. Let us hope we are not around to experience that when it happens. Jesus said: If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.” - Mt 24:22 this is my leaning on believers being with the Lord at the End ...

HOWEVER, my question was about discernment rather than end-times sequencing. What I was asking was whether the developments we see today could be understood as the beginning of the end Jesus spoke about—the “birth pains.” Are we seeing a moral climate increasingly like Sodom and Gomorrah, with the normalisation of abortion, the redefinition of marriage, radical woke ideology, pressure on Christians to conform, the erosion of objective truth, the breakdown of family values, and hostility toward faith in public life? I’m also wondering whether social media and AI are accelerating this moral decline. for me this conjures up "politics" ... which I think I should stay clear of : )​

In short, how should Christians biblically assess these trends without falling into fear or speculation?
I would say that we should Trust in Him, have Faith in Him, and Trust His Word ... that should give us strength, knowledge and peace (some are even excited, knowing that the time is near)
Andrew

Great sharing, and a great way to find Truth and Study the Bible at the same time : )
Thank you Andrew

 

[andrewsaba]

Linda

Thank you for your clarification. I am now convinced that Rapture refers to the end times. The Bible verses you quoted points to this.

Concerning the rebuilding of the temple, while Scripture does not explicitly command a rebuilt temple, multiple passages (Dan 9:27; Matt 24:15; 2 Thess 2:3–4; Rev 11:1–2) strongly imply a future temple context associated with end-time rebellion and judgment.

1. A temple existing at the time of the man of lawlessness
2 Thessalonians 2:3–4 — the man of lawlessness “takes his seat in the temple of God,” which implies a functioning temple at that time.

2. Sacrifices resumed and then stopped again
Daniel 9:27 — sacrifices and offerings are “put to an end,” which presupposes they have restarted in a temple context.

3. A future ‘abomination’ in the h77oly place
Matthew 24:15 — Jesus refers to the abomination of desolation “standing in the holy place,” using temple language and pointing beyond His own time.

4. A temple measured in the end times
Revelation 11:1–2 — John is told to measure “the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there,” long after Christ’s resurrection.

Andrew

 

[Yesua888]

Hi Andrew,
Thank you : )
May I respond below in orange ...

Concerning the rebuilding of the temple, while Scripture does not explicitly command a rebuilt temple, multiple passages (Dan 9:27; Matt 24:15; 2 Thess 2:3–4; Rev 11:1–2) strongly imply a future temple context associated with end-time rebellion and judgment. I overlooked this one!

1. A temple existing at the time of the man of lawlessness
2 Thessalonians 2:3–4 — the man of lawlessness “takes his seat in the temple of God,” which implies a functioning temple at that time.

2. Sacrifices resumed and then stopped again
Daniel 9:27 — sacrifices and offerings are “put to an end,” which presupposes they have restarted in a temple context.

3. A future ‘abomination’ in the h77oly place
Matthew 24:15 — Jesus refers to the abomination of desolation “standing in the holy place,” using temple language and pointing beyond His own time.

4. A temple measured in the end times
Revelation 11:1–2 — John is told to measure “the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there,” long after Christ’s resurrection. I'm going to try to find this statement "long after Christ's ressurection"?

Its a bit hard to get my head around this one, but here it is (and open to discussion):
Rev 11:1–2 – John is told to measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. The vision uses symbolic language, with "measuring" representing God’s protection and distinction between true believers and the unfaithful. The "outer court" being given to the nations suggests a future context, but the passage does not state or imply the physical construction of a new temple.
While the vision occurs long after Christ’s resurrection, it reflects both the present spiritual reality of the Church and a future restoration of Israel and Jerusalem. The temple, altar, and worshipers represent the faithful remnant—Jews and Gentiles united in Christ—whose spiritual identity is secured by God despite the surrounding chaos.
The temple is not a literal building in Jerusalem but a representation of God’s people, the Church, as affirmed in passages like 1 Corinthians 3:16 ("Do you not know that you are a temple of God?") and Ephesians 2:21–22, which describes believers as being built together into a dwelling place for God.

Yes agreed, None of these verses explicitly mention or require the building of a Second Temple. It is suggested that they refer to the Second Temple as it existed in the first century or use symbolic language, not literal reconstruction. The idea of a rebuilt temple is a theological interpretation, not a direct scriptural command or prediction.

 

[andrewsaba]

Here is some more information about the building of the 3rd Temple.

When I was in Isreal some years ago, I learned that certain religious groups in Israel (not the state) have made preparations for a possible Third Temple—including crafting ritual vessels, priestly garments, and studying temple laws. Groups such as the Temple Institute openly state that they are ready to rebuild the Temple if conditions allow.

The Temple’s historic location is the Temple Mount. It currently houses the Dome of the Rock and Al-Aqsa Mosque, Islam’s third-holiest site. Removing or altering them would be seen as an attack on Islam worldwide.

Those (Dispensationalist Christians) who hold the view that the temple will be rebuilt for the 3rd time (as a sign of the end times), are waiting and wondering how this will unfold.

Some recent events concerning this: Palestinians claim East Jerusalem as the capital of a future state. The U.S. formally recognised Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, and moved its embassy there in 2018. Dispensational Christians (such as myself) saw it as a possible stage-setting event—not prophecy fulfilled, but aligning with expectations about Israel.

Dispensational Christians believe that:

• Promises to Israel are literal and ongoing.
• The Church does not replace Israel.
• National Israel still has a future role in prophecy.

Andrew

 

[Yesua888]

Dispensational Christians believe that:

• Promises to Israel are literal and ongoing. can you enlarge on this please Andrew?
• The Church does not replace Israel. Andrew are you referring to ethnic Israel (the Modern land of Israel)?
• National Israel still has a future role in prophecy. do you have scripture that verifies this?
  Andrew

Hoping to learn more : )

 

[andrewsaba]

Linda

A dispensationalist Christian believes that God works out His redemptive plan through distinct periods (“dispensations”) in history, and that Israel and the Church are not the same in God’s purposes. In this view, the Church age is a temporary phase, while God’s promises to ethnic Israel—including the land, the nation, and the Davidic kingdom—remain literal and unfulfilled. Key texts often cited include Genesis 12:1–3 (unconditional promises to Abraham), Jeremiah 31:35–37 (Israel’s continued identity before God), and Romans 11:25–29 (Israel’s partial hardening until the fullness of the Gentiles).

Dispensationalists also typically hold a futurist reading of prophecy, expecting a future tribulation, the restoration of Israel, and a literal millennial reign of Christ on earth. They distinguish between Christ’s coming for the Church (the rapture) and His coming with the Church to reign. Let me further explain.

Dispensationalists teach two distinct phases of Christ’s return. First, Christ comes for the Church—commonly called the rapture—when believers are caught up to meet Him in the air and are removed before God’s end-time wrath is poured out on the world (1 Thessalonians 4:16–17; 1 Corinthians 15:51–52; Revelation 3:10). This event is described as sudden and imminent, with no preceding signs required.

Later, after the tribulation, Christ returns with the Church in visible glory to judge His enemies and establish His earthly reign (Revelation 19:11–16; Zechariah 14:4–9; Jude 1:14–15). In this second phase, believers return with Him, and Christ rules as King during the millennium (Revelation 20:1–6).

During the tribulation, Israel experiences severe trial but also spiritual awakening; a remnant turns to Christ as Messiah (Zechariah 12:10; Romans 11:26–27). This period is often linked to God resuming His dealings with Israel after the “fullness of the Gentiles” has come in.

At Christ’s visible return, Israel is nationally restored, and the promises of land, kingship, and blessing made to Abraham and David are literally fulfilled under Messiah’s reign (Genesis 12:1–3; Ezekiel 36:24–28; Revelation 20:1–6). Israel becomes the leading nation in the millennial kingdom, demonstrating God’s faithfulness to His irrevocable promises (Romans 11:29).

Andrew

 

[andrewsaba]

An interesting interpretation of apocalyptic imagery. Sounds like a good script for a nuclear apocalypse movie.

 

[Yesua888]

Andrew,
Thank you for the explanation ... I have a few questions : )

Dispensationalists teach two distinct phases of Christ’s return. First, Christ comes for the Church—commonly called the rapture—when believers are caught up to meet Him in the air and are removed before God’s end-time wrath is poured out on the world (1 Thessalonians 4:16–17; 1 Corinthians 15:51–52; Revelation 3:10). This event is described as sudden and imminent, with no preceding signs required.

1 Thessalonians 4:16–17

• Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, signifying a collective ascension to be with Him. I read this as meaning if we "remain", we made it to the End of the Tribulation?

1 Corinthians 15:51–52 (ESV)
"Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed." how does this back up "being caught up before the Tribulation"?

Revelation 3:10 is a verse in the Book of Revelation where Jesus speaks to the church in Philadelphia, commending them for their faithfulness and perseverance. The verse promises divine protection to those who remain steadfast in their obedience. same question as above?

Later, after the tribulation, Christ returns with the Church in visible glory to judge His enemies and establish His earthly reign (Revelation 19:11–16; Zechariah 14:4–9; Jude 1:14–15). In this second phase, believers return with Him, and Christ rules as King during the millennium (Revelation 20:1–6).

1 Thessalonians 4:16–17; 1 Corinthians 15:51–52; I don't see the connection to "rapture" and coming again with Jesus ... ?
Jude 1:4, declaring that the Lord is coming with ten thousands of His holy ones to execute judgment.

Nearly had me then ...

"His Holy Ones" in Jude 1:14 refers primarily to angelic beings, not the saints who are caught up in the rapture. The Greek term hagioi ("holy ones") is used in the New Testament for both redeemed believers and holy angels. However, in the context of Christ’s return with His holy ones to execute judgment (Jude 1:15), the emphasis is on accompaniment from heaven, which aligns with passages like Matthew 25:31 and 2 Thessalonians 1:7, where angels accompany Christ in glory.

Revelation 20:1–6 describes a vision of the binding of Satan, the resurrection and reign of the saints, and the nature of the "first resurrection."

Sorry Andrew, the verses shared do not convince me to become a "dispensationalist" believing in a pre-tribulation rapture (thought we went through that earlier?)

This is my view:

There is explicit scripture that supports the concept of believers being caught up at the end of the Tribulation, particularly in post-tribulation theology.

Key Passages:​

Matthew 24:29–31​

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days... they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds."
This is the clearest scriptural link between the rapture and the end of the Tribulation, stating the gathering of the elect occurs after the tribulation.​

1 Thessalonians 4:16–17​

"The Lord Himself will descend from heaven... the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up... in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air."
While this passage describes the "rapture", it does not specify timing. However, post-tribulationists interpret it as occurring at Christ’s visible return, which aligns with Matthew 24 and Revelation 19.​

Revelation 11:15, 18​

"The seventh angel sounded; and there were loud voices... 'The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ.'"
This marks the end of the Tribulation and is associated with the final resurrection and reward of the saints.​

1 Corinthians 15:51–52​

"We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—in a flash, at the last trumpet."
The "last trumpet" is linked to the seventh trumpet in Revelation 11:15, which sounds at the end of the Tribulation.​

Conclusion:​

While 1 Thessalonians 4:17 describes the rapture, Matthew 24:29–31 explicitly places it immediately after the Tribulation, making it the strongest scriptural support for a post-tribulation rapture.

 

[andrewsaba]

Hi Linda

I am not here to 'preach to the converted'.

When I explained what a dispensationist is, I was merely replying to your question. It was never my intention to sway you to my point of view. And I respect your viewpoint. There are other arguments too the differ from ours.

Let us agree to disagree. What is important is that we both are united in the primary doctrines of reformed faith ( or the Core Tenets of Reformed Faith) while we may be divided on secondary doctrines. The end point is the same, to be united with Christ and the enjoy His presence forever.

My original question was whether the recent events in the world today was related to the sign of the times. I I believe this has already been address and I am thankful for that.
Shalom

Andrew