Are You Following the Real Jesus—or a Counterfeit?

[David]

Jesus said plainly in John 10:26, “But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.” These are not the words of a motivational speaker or a gentle religious guru, they are the words of the Lord Himself, dividing between those who truly belong to Him and those who do not. Many claim belief, yet Scripture makes it clear, not all belief is saving faith. The line Jesus draws here is sharp. It reveals that real faith goes far deeper than mental agreement or emotional excitement. It is about belonging to Him.

In John 3:15-16, Jesus promises eternal life to those who believe in Him. But the kind of belief He speaks of is not casual acknowledgment. It is a personal trust, a complete surrender to the One lifted up like the serpent in the wilderness, crucified for the sins of the world. This kind of belief changes everything. It is not intellectual curiosity or admiration for His miracles. In fact, John 6:23-26 shows us that many followed Jesus simply because they wanted more bread. They had seen the miracles, they had been amazed, but they were not drawn to Him, they were drawn to what He could give them.

Others saw Jesus as a political solution, a possible liberator from Rome. Mark 15:32 records the mockery of the crowd, “Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe.” They wanted a Messiah on their terms, a powerful ruler who would crush their enemies, not a suffering servant who would die for their sins. They believed in a version of Jesus, but not the one sent by the Father. They did not recognize Him because their hearts were not His. They were not His sheep.

This is why Galatians 1:3-4 and Philippians 2:5-8 are so vital. They remind us who the true Jesus is. He gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver us from this present evil world. He made Himself of no reputation, humbling Himself to the point of death on a cross. This is the Jesus we must believe in, not a mascot for our political ideals, not a genie who fixes our problems, but the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.

Many today still fall into the same trap. They believe in a Jesus of their own imagination, a Christ made in their image, one who tolerates sin, affirms their desires, and requires no repentance. But Jesus said, “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me” (John 10:27). Saving faith is marked by submission, trust, and obedience. It is to believe in the Jesus of Scripture, and to follow Him wherever He leads.

So ask yourself, do you believe in Jesus because of what He can do for you, or because of who He truly is? If He leads you through suffering, persecution, or hardship, will you still follow? If not, then maybe the problem is not with your faith, it is that you may not be one of His sheep.

But the good news is this, Jesus is still calling. And all who hear His voice and come to Him in repentance and faith will be saved. Not by works, not by heritage, but by grace. Believe in the true Christ, the crucified, risen, and returning King. Anything less is not saving faith. It is a counterfeit. And eternity is too high a price to gamble on the wrong Jesus.

 

[Jack Horsefork]

Is following God also OK?

 

[David]

Is following God also OK?

No, because you cannot “follow” “God” apart from Jesus Christ, because Scripture does not present God apart from Jesus Christ.

The Bible is clear on this point. Jesus is not a representative of God you can choose not to follow. He is God made known. “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God… And the Word was made flesh” ~John 1:1,14. To speak of following God while ignoring Jesus is not biblical faith. It is unbelief.

Jesus made this a non-negotiable issue. “He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him” ~John 5:23. You cannot say you are following God while discrediting, reinterpreting, or separating God from His Son. Scripture explicitly says you cannot.

John makes this point even more clearly. “Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father” ~1 John 2:23. There is no provision in the Bible for following God without following Christ. None at all.

Jesus did not teach that He provides a way to know God. He said He is the way. “No man cometh unto the Father, but by me” ~John 14:6. Period.

If someone comes along and says they are “following God” while at the same time they are distancing themselves from Jesus, they are not merely presenting a wider faith. They are presenting an altogether different faith. Scripture says not to do that quite plainly. “If any man preach any other gospel… let him be accursed” ~Galatians 1:8.

So let’s be perfectly clear for the sake of anyone reading. Jesus is not one path to God. He is God the Son. To reject Jesus is to reject God. To redefine Jesus is to follow a false god. Jesus is God.

This is not a matter of semantics. This is eternal truth.

 

[bobinfaith]

Is following God also OK?

Good morning, Jack;

When we're following Jesus we are following God.

John 14:6, 5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?” 6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.” - NIV

Moses will attest to God's Ways and could not fathom what God was capable of all during the Exodus. Moses long journey and relationship with God including sending the future Messiah, the Deliverer as the seed of woman in Genesis 3:15 and later when Mose announced in Deuteronomy 18:15-19,

15 “The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your brethren—him you shall heed— 16 just as you desired of the Lord your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly, when you said, ‘Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, or see this great fire any more, lest I die.’ 17 And the Lord said to me, ‘They have rightly said all that they have spoken. 18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brethren; and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him. 19 And whoever will not give heed to my words which he shall speak in my name, I myself will require it of him. - RSV

I always invite God to join my wife and me wherever we go and do, and Jesus is always included while carrying us both through it all.

God bless you, Jack and your entire family.

Bob

 

[Jack Horsefork]

People are confused about who is God.

God is not a carpenter. The God who created the heaven and the earth, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, that is Y-H-W-H.

Link removed for false teaching.

 

[Jack Horsefork]

Good morning, Jack;

Good evening.

God bless you, Jack and your entire family.

Bob

Thank you. The same for you.

 

[David]

People are confused about who is God.

God is not a carpenter. The God who created the heaven and the earth, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, that is Y-H-W-H.

Scripture has already answered this point, so I will not restate what has been said. Your assertion fails because it ignores what God Himself later revealed about Himself. The Old Testament does not end the definition of who YHWH is. God continues to speak. Hebrews 1:1–2 says that God, who spoke in times past through the prophets, has in these last days spoken unto us by His Son. That is not a different God. That is the same God revealing Himself more fully.

Isaiah 9:6 says the child born would be called “Mighty God” and “Everlasting Father.” Micah 5:2 says the Messiah would come forth from Bethlehem yet be “from everlasting.” These are not carpenter myths. These are YHWH’s own words about the One He would send.

The issue is not confusion about who God is. The issue is refusal to accept how God chose to reveal Himself. Scripture warns plainly, “He that abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God” ~2 John 9. That is decisive.

This thread is about the real Jesus versus a counterfeit. Any version of God that excludes, diminishes, or distances itself from Jesus Christ is not the God Scripture reveals. That is not an insult. That is simply what the text says.

The matter has been answered by Scripture. It does not need redefining.

 

[David]

Link removed for false teaching.

For clarity going forward, links that promote teaching contrary to the plain teaching of Scripture are not permitted here.

This forum is governed by the Word of God, not by outside materials that deny, redefine, or separate what Scripture joins together. We are not here to host alternate gospels or sources that contradict what the Bible plainly teaches about God and Christ. Scripture warns directly against this. “If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed” ~2 John 10. That applies to teachings and to the materials that promote them.

You are welcome to discuss Scripture itself. You are not free to post links that undermine the truth of Scripture. This is not censorship. It is biblical discernment.

Consider this your notice so there is no confusion going forward.

 

[bobinfaith]

People are confused about who is God.

God is not a carpenter. The God who created the heaven and the earth, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, that is Y-H-W-H.

Link removed for false teaching.

Hello Jack;

God is not referred to as a carpenter. He is our Creator of the Heavens and the Earth, our God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, thus Y-H-W-H. Scripture has already made this inerrantly Biblical.

His only begotten Son, Jesus, during His earthly mission was a tekton (Greek,) "carpenter" or metaphor for "a builder" - a "Spiritual building," "living stones" or "Kingdom of God."

Mark 6:3, 3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? And are not his sisters here with us?” And they took offense at him. - ESV

Matthew 13:55, 55 Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not his mother called Mary? And are not his brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? - RSV

This was not a compliment but a lowly statement made by those who didn't believe, therefore could not grasp the Christ.

God bless you, Jack.

Bob

 

[Jack Horsefork]

Isaiah 9:6 says the child born would be called “Mighty God” and “Everlasting Father.”

Isaiah 9:2-7 "2 The people who walked in darkness have seen a great light; those who dwelt in a land of deep darkness, on them has light shined. 3 Thou hast multiplied the nation, thou hast increased its joy; they rejoice before thee as with joy at the harvest, as men rejoice when they divide the spoil. 4 For the yoke of his burden, and the staff for his shoulder, the rod of his oppressor, thou hast broken as on the day of Mid'ian. 5 For every boot of the tramping warrior in battle tumult and every garment rolled in blood will be burned as fuel for the fire. 6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government will be upon his shoulder, and his name will be called "Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace". 7 Of the increase of his government and of peace there will be no end, upon the throne of David, and over his kingdom, to establish it, and to uphold it with justice and with righteousness from this time forth and for evermore. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will do this."

Please take notice of the fact that Isaiah is talking in the past tense: "The people who walked in darkness have seen a great light; those who dwelt in a land of deep darkness, on them has light shined.|


"For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government is upon his shoulder, and his name was called "Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."


These are things which had happened already in the days of Isaiah.


If, despite these facts, you still want to apply these verses to JC, than read verse 5, 6, and 7, and see that JC didn't do any of those things. He never ruled on the throne of David, he never had any government on his shoulders, and there never was endless peace over his kingdom.


The same holds true for the verses 6 and 7: "For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government will be upon his shoulder, and his name will be called "Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace". 7 Of the increase of his government and of peace there will be no end, upon the throne of David, and over his kingdom, to establish it, and to uphold it with justice and with righteousness from this time forth and for evermore. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will do this."


All of this doesn't hold true for JC; he never had any government on his shoulder. And also here is spoken in the past tense: "A child is born, a son is given. But most translations give it in the future tense. For instance the RSV, NIV, NAS, ESV, KJV, NIRV, the all say; "His name will be called ....", future tense. However, in the Hebrew text this too is past tense: "His name was called ...." The Hebrew expression here is "wayikra". That is the first word in the book of Leviticus. And all the previously mentioned translations there say: "And the Lord called Mozes ..." Past tense. Exactly the same the word. Isn't that weird? Exactly the same word is used in Genesis 5:1; "And God called the light 'day'" Called. Past tense. Nobody argues with that one. But why then, in Isaiah 9, is it suddenly changed to future tense? The answer is simple: The past tense doesn't fit with the Christian theology, and therefore the Bible translations are corrupted and twisted to fit the Christian religion. Just like that. There is only one solution for this problem: Take a course in Biblical Hebrew. It is more easy then it looks. Then your eyes will be opened and the Christian deception will stare you in the face. And yes, I do sympathize with the poor misguided Christians whom are being led astray by their clergy by means of twisted and corrupted Bible translations. That's the reason why I fulfill my duty of being a light unto the nations and uncovering the Christian deception.

"Of the increase of his government and of peace there will be no end" "There will be no end", future tense. And this too is WRONG. It is in the Hebrew present tense. I found only one translation which is correct here, and that is Young's Literal Translation.


Why all this stress on the tenses? Isaiah spoke about a king who was living in his days, and therefore JC is out. The king that Isaiah speaks about is Hezekiah, the son of Achaz who got from Isaiah the sign about the young woman (no, not the virgin) who was pregnant and gave birth to the son Immanuel.

The Talmud explains that under the rule of the God fearing Hezekiah the Jewish kingdom rose to great heights, and that's why he was entitled to those impressive titles.



Because of the fact that the name of the son is "Mighty God", (or "God is Mighty", both are possible translations) and "Eternal Father", the Christians deduce that the boy spoken about must have been God.

HOWEVER, a name is only that; a name. A name is not a description of the bearer of that name. An example: Buffalo Bill was not a buffalo. The indian chief Sitting Bull was not a bull.

Many times people in the Bible have in their name the word "God", or the name of God, but that doesn't mean that those people are God. For instance; in Exodus 6:23 is spoken about a man called "Elazar". That means "God is a helper", or "Helping God". But that doesn't mean that that man was God.

Exodus 6:24; "Elkanah", that means "God acquired", or "acquiring God". II Samuel 22:19; "Elchanan"; "God is merciful", or "Merciful God". But these men were not God, just like the the child in Isaiah 9 wasn't God.



Apart from that, the Hebrew words "El gibor", in Christian Bibles translated with "Mighty God", can have a different meaning. "El" can mean "God", but it can also mean "judge", "leader", or "mighty man". In Exodus 4:16 God says to Moses that he will be of an elohiem for his brother Aharon. ("elohim" is the longer form of the word "el") This doesn't mean that Moses was a God for Aharon and Aharon started to worship his brother, it meant that Moses would be the leader of Aharon.

In Exodus 21:1-6 is spoken about a slave who after the normal period of servitude ended, doesn't want to leave his master. In that case the owner has to take him to court, where the slave will make a statement that he doesn't want to leave his master, and that he will serve his master until his death. The Hebrew text there says that his master must take him to the "elohim". There the NAS, ASV, ESV, NRSV, RSV, YLT, they all say that his master must take him "to God". However, his master doesn't take him for a ride to heaven, but takes him to the courthouse. Therefore the NIV, KJV, TNIV, and the NIRV, they all say that the master must take him to "the judges".


Even so in Isaiah 9 the word "El" does not necessarily mean "God". Therefore the text in Isaiah 9 is in no way a proof that the child spoken about was God.

 

[Jack Horsefork]

For clarity going forward, links that promote teaching contrary to the plain teaching of Scripture are not permitted here.

This forum is governed by the Word of God, not by outside materials that deny, redefine, or separate what Scripture joins together. We are not here to host alternate gospels or sources that contradict what the Bible plainly teaches about God and Christ. Scripture warns directly against this. “If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed” ~2 John 10. That applies to teachings and to the materials that promote them.

You are welcome to discuss Scripture itself. You are not free to post links that undermine the truth of Scripture. This is not censorship. It is biblical discernment.

Consider this your notice so there is no confusion going forward.

Please explain what part of my link was Biblically incorrect.

Are you denying that Y-H-W-H is God?

 

[Jack Horsefork]

Micah 5:2 says the Messiah would come forth from Bethlehem yet be “from everlasting.”

Micah 5:2
New American Standard Bible "But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Too little to be among the clans of Judah, From you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel His goings forth are from long ago, From the days of eternity."

Holman Christian Standard Bible " Bethlehem Ephrathah, you are small among the clans of Judah; One will come from you to be ruler over Israel for Me. His origin is from antiquity, from eternity.

New Life Version "His coming was planned long ago, from the beginning."

Darby Translation "whose goings forth are from of old, from the days of eternity."

American Standard Version "whose goings forth are from of old, from everlasting."

All versions of the King James: "whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting."

Amplified Bible "Whose goings forth have been from of old, from ancient days (eternity).


All the above translation say the origins of the messiah are from "everlasting" or from "eternity", hereby implying that the messiah is God.
The Hebrew words here translated with "from everlasting" or "days of eternity" are "yamei olaam", which means literally "ancient days".
Many Bible translations translate it like that, only the above hold on to "days of eternity", or something with the same implications, with which they imply that the messiah is God himself.

However, also the above translations know how to correctly translate the words "yamei olaam". We see that for instance in Micah 7:14, were the same expression "yamei olaam" is used. See here how the above translate it there:

Holman Christian Standard Bible " Let them graze in Bashan and Gilead as in ancient times."

New Life Version "Let them eat in Bashan and Gilead as in days long ago."

Darby Translation "let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old. "

American Standard Version "let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old."

King James: "let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old."

New American Standard Bible "Let them feed in Bashan and Gilead As in the days of old."

Amplified Bible "they shall feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old."




Another place where the expression "yamei olaam" is used, is in Isaiah 63:11

Holman Christian Standard Bible " Then He remembered the days of the past, [the days] of Moses [and] his people."

New Life Version "Then His people remembered the days long ago, the days of Moses."

Darby Translation "But he remembered the days of old, Moses [and] his people:"

American Standard Version "Then he remembered the days of old, Moses and his people,"

King James: "Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people,"

New American Standard Bible "Then His people remembered the days of old, of Moses"

Amplified Bible "Then His people [seriously] remembered the days of old, of Moses and his people"




Another place where the expression "yamei olaam" is used is Amos 9:11

Holman Christian Standard Bible "In that day I will restore the fallen booth of David: I will repair its gaps,
restore its ruins, and rebuild it as in the days of old,"

New Life Version "In that day I will build again the tent of David that fell down. Yes, I will build it again from the stones that fell down. I will set it up again as it used to be."

Darby Translation "and I will raise up its ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:"

American Standard Version "and I will raise up its ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old;"

King James: "and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:"

Amplified Bible "and I will raise up its ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old,"

New American Standard Bible "I will also raise up its ruins And rebuild it as in the days of old;"



Another place where the expression "yamei olaam" is used is in Malachi 3:4

Holman Christian Standard Bible "And the offerings of Judah and Jerusalem will please the LORD as in days of old and years gone by"

New Life Version "Then the gifts of Judah and Jerusalem will be pleasing to the Lord, as they were in the past."

Darby Translation "Then shall the oblation of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto J-e-h-o-v-a-h, as in the days of old, and as in former years."

American Standard Version "Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto J-e-h-o-v-a-h, as in the days of old, and as in ancient years. "

King James: "Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the LORD, as in the days of old, and as in former years."

Amplified Bible "hen will the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasing to the Lord as in the days of old and as in ancient years."

New American Standard Bible ""Then the offering of Judah and Jerusalem will be pleasing to the LORD as in the days of old and as in former years."

It should be clear by now for everybody that the expression "yamei olaam" has no bearing on "days of eternity".
It is always translated correct, except there where it speaks about the messiah, and so the illusion is created that messiah must be God.

 

[David]

The Talmud explains that under the rule of the God fearing Hezekiah the Jewish kingdom rose to great heights, and that's why he was entitled to those impressive titles.

This argument collapses under Scripture itself, not under Christian theology. First, your entire case rests on tense-policing, but the Bible itself uses what scholars call the prophetic perfect. Scripture routinely speaks of future acts of God as accomplished facts because His decree is certain. Isaiah does this constantly. For example, Isaiah 53 speaks of the Servant’s suffering entirely in past tense, yet you do not claim the Servant had already been crucified in Isaiah’s day. The tense does not determine timing. The context does.

Second, Scripture itself applies Isaiah 9:1–2 to Jesus Christ explicitly. Matthew says, quoting this very passage, “that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet” and applies it to Jesus’ ministry in Galilee ~Matthew 4:14–16. You do not get to claim Isaiah 9 refers only to Hezekiah when inspired Scripture applies it to Christ.

Third, your claim that the throne language disqualifies Jesus ignores the Bible’s own explanation. Scripture teaches that Jesus is the heir of David’s throne, but His reign unfolds in stages. The angel said to Mary that the Lord God would give Him “the throne of his father David” and that His kingdom would have no end ~Luke 1:32–33. Peter preached that Jesus was raised to sit on David’s throne ~Acts 2:30–36. The New Testament does not deny the throne. It explains it.

Fourth, the name El Gibbor cannot be reduced to “mighty man” in Isaiah 9 without breaking Isaiah’s own usage. The very same prophet uses El Gibbor unmistakably for YHWH Himself in Isaiah 10:21, saying the remnant will return “unto the mighty God.” Same words. Same prophet. Same meaning. Scripture interprets Scripture.

Fifth, your appeal to name usage misses the point. Isaiah does not say the child merely has a name containing God. He says the child is called Mighty God and Everlasting Father. Isaiah never applies those titles together to any merely human king. Hezekiah is never called Everlasting Father anywhere in Scripture. That title belongs to God alone, who says, “I am the LORD, I change not” ~Malachi 3:6.

Sixth, appealing to the Talmud settles nothing. The Talmud is not Scripture. This forum stands on the Word of God alone.

Finally, Scripture itself closes the door on your conclusion. Isaiah says this ruler’s kingdom will be upheld “from henceforth even for ever” by the zeal of YHWH. No king in Isaiah’s day meets that description. Scripture does not bend to historical convenience.

The issue here is not corrupted translations or Christian deception. The issue is refusing the Bible’s own testimony about the Messiah. Jesus fits Isaiah 9 precisely because He is not merely a king of Judah, but the eternal King revealed in time.

The text does not fail. Your conclusion does.

 

[David]

It should be clear by now

You are not wrestling with Hebrew. You are wrestling with what God has said about His Christ. You keep insisting that if a phrase can sometimes mean “ancient,” then it must always mean “ancient,” as though God is bound to your preferred minimum definition. Scripture does not work that way. Words have range, and God Himself defines the range by context. The issue is not what yāmê ʿôlām can mean in isolation. The issue is what it must mean here given what is being described.

Micah does not say this ruler merely descends from an ancient lineage. He says his goings forth are from of old. Not his ancestry. Not his royal line. His activity. His going out. His existence in purpose and action before Bethlehem. That language is never used of ordinary kings.

Then Micah tells you what kind of ruler this is. He will stand and shepherd “in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God,” and he will be great to the ends of the earth ~Micah 5:4. No king in Israel’s past meets that description. Not David. Not Hezekiah. Not anyone. You are trying to squeeze an eternal ruler into a temporary box because you refuse the conclusion Scripture presses.

And this is where the heart of the issue shows itself. You appeal to Isaiah, Micah, and Hebrew grammar, but you refuse to listen when Scripture explains itself later. The same God who spoke through Micah spoke through the apostles. If you reject that, then do not pretend this is about fidelity to the Bible. It is about controlling the outcome.

Jesus said, “Before Abraham was, I am” ~John 8:58. Not I was planned. Not I was foreseen. I am. And the Jews knew exactly what He meant, because they picked up stones. They did not accuse Him of bad grammar. They accused Him of blasphemy.

You say Micah cannot mean what Christians say it means. Scripture says Christ came forth in time, yet existed before time. “In the beginning was the Word” ~John 1:1. “He is before all things” ~Colossians 1:17. “Whose goings forth are from of old” is not a problem text. It is a witness.

What you are really doing is this. You are willing to let God speak until He says something that costs you your conclusion. Then suddenly the text must be restrained, redefined, and domesticated. That is not submission. That is resistance dressed up as scholarship.

God has not stuttered. He has spoken plainly. The Messiah is born in Bethlehem. His reign is eternal. His origin is not merely ancient. It is beyond time itself. If that offends you, the offense is not created by Christian translators. It is created by the Word of God.

The question is not whether the Hebrew allows it. The question is whether you will allow God to be who He says He is.

 

[Johann]

View attachment 5

Jesus said plainly in John 10:26, “But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.” These are not the words of a motivational speaker or a gentle religious guru, they are the words of the Lord Himself, dividing between those who truly belong to Him and those who do not. Many claim belief, yet Scripture makes it clear, not all belief is saving faith. The line Jesus draws here is sharp. It reveals that real faith goes far deeper than mental agreement or emotional excitement. It is about belonging to Him.

In John 3:15-16, Jesus promises eternal life to those who believe in Him. But the kind of belief He speaks of is not casual acknowledgment. It is a personal trust, a complete surrender to the One lifted up like the serpent in the wilderness, crucified for the sins of the world. This kind of belief changes everything. It is not intellectual curiosity or admiration for His miracles. In fact, John 6:23-26 shows us that many followed Jesus simply because they wanted more bread. They had seen the miracles, they had been amazed, but they were not drawn to Him, they were drawn to what He could give them.

Others saw Jesus as a political solution, a possible liberator from Rome. Mark 15:32 records the mockery of the crowd, “Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe.” They wanted a Messiah on their terms, a powerful ruler who would crush their enemies, not a suffering servant who would die for their sins. They believed in a version of Jesus, but not the one sent by the Father. They did not recognize Him because their hearts were not His. They were not His sheep.

This is why Galatians 1:3-4 and Philippians 2:5-8 are so vital. They remind us who the true Jesus is. He gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver us from this present evil world. He made Himself of no reputation, humbling Himself to the point of death on a cross. This is the Jesus we must believe in, not a mascot for our political ideals, not a genie who fixes our problems, but the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.

Many today still fall into the same trap. They believe in a Jesus of their own imagination, a Christ made in their image, one who tolerates sin, affirms their desires, and requires no repentance. But Jesus said, “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me” (John 10:27). Saving faith is marked by submission, trust, and obedience. It is to believe in the Jesus of Scripture, and to follow Him wherever He leads.

So ask yourself, do you believe in Jesus because of what He can do for you, or because of who He truly is? If He leads you through suffering, persecution, or hardship, will you still follow? If not, then maybe the problem is not with your faith, it is that you may not be one of His sheep.

But the good news is this, Jesus is still calling. And all who hear His voice and come to Him in repentance and faith will be saved. Not by works, not by heritage, but by grace. Believe in the true Christ, the crucified, risen, and returning King. Anything less is not saving faith. It is a counterfeit. And eternity is too high a price to gamble on the wrong Jesus.

I have noticed your forum is not very active @David ?

Johann here from Crosswalk.

J.

 

[David]

I have noticed your forum is not very active @David ?

Johann here from Crosswalk.

Exactly. BTF is new and just getting started. New ground always takes time.

Scripture never treats growth as instant or guaranteed. Paul said, “I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase” ~1 Corinthians 3:6. Planting always comes before visibility.

If God chooses to bring people, He will. If He chooses to keep it small, that is His business too. Faithfulness comes first. Fruit comes when and how the Lord decides.

Truth does not need momentum to be true. It only needs to be taught plainly and without compromise.

 

[Yesua888]

I have noticed your forum is not very active @David ?

Johann here from Crosswalk.

J.

So right! We are waiting for people such as yourself, to interact : )
Blessings Linda
PS what or where is "Crosswalk"?

 

[Yesua888]

People are confused about who is God.

God is not a carpenter. The God who created the heaven and the earth, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, that is Y-H-W-H.

Link removed for false teaching.

Hi Jack,
I too was pretty confused by "God" ... God The Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit ... this caused me a few years of confusion and discomfort especially in not knowing who to pray to. I was back and forth with this, praying to God (The Father) and to Jesus, separately. I also felt that I was leaving Holy Spirit out, who spreaks to us as Christians, and guides us along our ways (He will even rejuvenate our spirits whilst we sleep, if we ask Him to). The more we learn about Scripture (unadulterated), the more peace we gain. I also used to think there were "contradictions" in Scripture ... David has taught me so much. Stick around, open your heart and mind (pray to The Father to help you with this) ... in a short period of time, maybe six months, I have learned more than with any other group or forum. Sometimes it is heavy going, and I have to read the question and the answers over and over again (this is called Bible Study). All the best, and hope we see you around more often. Keep asking questions, and be ready for the Truth : ) Blessings, Linda

 

[Yesua888]

Exactly. BTF is new and just getting started. New ground always takes time.

Scripture never treats growth as instant or guaranteed. Paul said, “I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase” ~1 Corinthians 3:6. Planting always comes before visibility.

If God chooses to bring people, He will. If He chooses to keep it small, that is His business too. Faithfulness comes first. Fruit comes when and how the Lord decides.

Truth does not need momentum to be true. It only needs to be taught plainly and without compromise.

Such a Wonderful way of looking at BTF ... Thank You for all your hard work David, even if it is for but a few of us ... I do not know what I would do without your and Bob's inputs : ) xxx

 

[Jack Horsefork]

You are not wrestling with Hebrew. You are wrestling with what God has said about His Christ. You keep insisting that if a phrase can sometimes mean “ancient,” then it must always mean “ancient,” as though God is bound to your preferred minimum definition. Scripture does not work that way. Words have range, and God Himself defines the range by context. The issue is not what yāmê ʿôlām can mean in isolation. The issue is what it must mean here given what is being described.

Bs"d

Please explain what it must mean here and why.

Micah does not say this ruler merely descends from an ancient lineage. He says his goings forth are from of old. Not his ancestry. Not his royal line. His activity. His going out.

The word is a noun, not a verb. So no activity. It means his origin, his ancestral line.

His existence in purpose and action before Bethlehem. That language is never used of ordinary kings.

Then Micah tells you what kind of ruler this is. He will stand and shepherd “in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God,” and he will be great to the ends of the earth ~Micah 5:4. No king in Israel’s past meets that description. Not David. Not Hezekiah. Not anyone.

Also your messiah does not meet that description. Nobody does. Because the messiah didn't come yet.

Jesus said, “Before Abraham was, I am” ~John 8:58. Not I was planned. Not I was foreseen. I am. And the Jews knew exactly what He meant, because they picked up stones. They did not accuse Him of bad grammar. They accused Him of blasphemy.

Everybody can claim to be God or the messiah. That doesn't make them God or the messiah.

How do we know that the messiah is the messiah? By the fact that he fulfills the messianic prophecies.

JC did not fulfill the messianic prophecies, therefore he is not the messiah.

God has not stuttered. He has spoken plainly. The Messiah is born in Bethlehem. His reign is eternal. His origin is not merely ancient. It is beyond time itself.

You can believe that the messiah is from beyond time itself. Just don't think it is written in Micha 5, because it isn't.