Angels

[bobinfaith]

Hello Michael;

In God's Word Cherub is a high ranking angelic servant and Ram was the sacrifice God provided to Abraham instead of Isaac, thus CherubRam.

CherubRam is an interesting name. Are you a disciple of Judaism Christian belief?

Please review our Biblical Debate Board and forum rules.

I don't personally debate, however, I do share my apologetic beliefs that are supported by sola scriptura.

My wife and I reside and serve the Lord in the SF Bay Area and are supporters of Jews for Jesus and the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews.

God bless you, Michael, and your entire family.

Bob

 

[David]

Hello, my name is Michael. I am a non-trin Christian. I believe in keeping the commanded Sabbath and the moral commands of God.

Does this forum allow doctrinal debate?

Yes, doctrinal discussion is allowed here. What is not allowed is the promotion of teaching that contradicts clear Scripture, especially when it alters or denies core biblical doctrine.

Biblical Truth Forum exists for discussion under the authority of Scripture, not debate that treats settled biblical truths as negotiable opinions.

Members are free to ask questions, examine passages, compare interpretations, and test ideas openly. Acts 17:11 commends believers who “searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.” Honest examination is welcome.

However, the forum does not allow teaching that:

Denies or rewrites doctrines plainly taught in Scripture.
Reframes Christ’s warnings about judgment, salvation, or sin in ways that contradict His own words.
Presents doctrinal error as biblical truth after correction has been given from Scripture.

Titus 3:10 instructs, “A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject.” The purpose is protection of readers, not suppression of discussion.

So the answer is simple:

Yes, doctrinal discussion is allowed.
No, doctrinal contradiction of clear Scripture is not permitted to stand as teaching.

Discussion seeks understanding under God’s Word. The forum is not a platform for redefining what Scripture plainly says.

 

[Rose]

Did God create the angels? When were they created?

 

[David]

The angels did not always exist. Only God has existed from everlasting to everlasting. It is obvious from Scripture that angels are created. Colossians clearly reveals where they came from: “For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him” ~Colossians 1:16. Notice that “principalities” and “powers” are referencing the spiritual realm unseen by the physical eye. Angels were spoken into existence by Christ.

Psalm 148 declares the same truth. “Praise ye him, all his angels… Let them praise the name of the LORD: for he commanded, and they were created” ~Psalm 148:2,5. Angels did not evolve. Angels did not just randomly happen into existence. God spoke and they were there.

Here is where Scripture reveals what may have happened. God formed the foundation of the earth and angels were already in existence watching His masterpiece being formed. When God asked Job where he was during creation, he said, “When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?” ~Job 38:4,7.

Imagine creation for a moment. Imagine that moment when God had just finished speaking the universe into existence. Imagine the angels watching as He spoke the earth into form by His word. They were there rejoicing like a heavenly choir at the mighty power and wisdom of their Maker. Angels were present because they had already been created by their Maker.

Scripture never tells us when they were created. Genesis never states on what day of creation they were made. All Scripture says is that angels already existed when God laid the foundation of the earth. Once Scripture stops telling us what happened, we need to stop guessing at what happened.

But Scripture does reveal why they exist. “Hebrews 1:14 says, “Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?” Angels are servants of God. Angels work hard to achieve the will of God. They serve in His kingdom.

But here is why it really matters. The angels that caused heaven and earth to shake with their worship are servants to the same King that sent His only Son to save sinners from their hell-deserving sins. The Creator of angels became man to dwell among us to reconcile us back to Himself. God created angels to worship Him, and because they cannot redeem us from our sins, God sent His Son to do that. Let that put your puzzle into perspective. The Creator of angels laid down His life to redeem you and me.

 

[CherubRam]

Hello Michael;

In God's Word Cherub is a high ranking angelic servant and Ram was the sacrifice God provided to Abraham instead of Isaac, thus CherubRam.

CherubRam is an interesting name. Are you a disciple of Judaism Christian belief?

Please review our Biblical Debate Board and forum rules.

I don't personally debate, however, I do share my apologetic beliefs that are supported by sola scriptura.

My wife and I reside and serve the Lord in the SF Bay Area and are supporters of Jews for Jesus and the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews.

God bless you, Michael, and your entire family.

Bob

A ram is a leader of the sheep. CherubRam means Highest Spiritual Ram. Years ago I needed a User Name and made up names at random until the computer program finally accepted this one. CherubRam
I am a (Judaeo / Judaic) Christian.
I live in the state of Oregon.

 

[CherubRam]

Hello Michael;

In God's Word Cherub is a high ranking angelic servant and Ram was the sacrifice God provided to Abraham instead of Isaac, thus CherubRam.

CherubRam is an interesting name. Are you a disciple of Judaism Christian belief?

Please review our Biblical Debate Board and forum rules.

I don't personally debate, however, I do share my apologetic beliefs that are supported by sola scriptura.

My wife and I reside and serve the Lord in the SF Bay Area and are supporters of Jews for Jesus and the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews.

God bless you, Michael, and your entire family.

Bob

Quote: "Opinion, tradition, and personal experience are never treated as equal to Scripture."

Trinitarianism and Sunday Sabbath were established by the Catholic Church, that is, according to history.

In History
Originally the Judaizing Christians were the ones who had the letters of the Disciples. The Catholics got their scriptures from the Judaizing Christians and proceeded to alter them to make them acceptable to the Pagans.

I have noticed that this place does not even accept biblical foot notes of Study Bibles.

 

[David]

I have noticed that this place does not even accept biblical foot notes of Study Bibles.

One small clarification about the forum rules.

When the guideline says that opinion, tradition, and personal experience are not treated as equal to Scripture, that does not mean study helps are automatically rejected. Study Bible footnotes, cross references, language notes, and similar tools can be useful if they are pointing back to what the text of Scripture actually says.

What we do not allow is elevating human commentary to the level of authority, or using notes and traditions to make Scripture say something that is not written in the passage itself.

The standard is simple. Everything must stand or fall by the Word of God.

The Bereans were called noble because they “searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so” ~Acts 17:11. Even the apostle Paul’s teaching was examined against the Scriptures.

So if a study note helps explain a passage and it can be supported by the text itself and the whole counsel of Scripture, it is welcome. If it contradicts or replaces what Scripture plainly says, then it will be challenged.

That is the approach we try to keep here. Scripture first, everything else tested by it.

 

[David]

Quote: "Opinion, tradition, and personal experience are never treated as equal to Scripture."

Trinitarianism and Sunday Sabbath were established by the Catholic Church, that is, according to history.

In History
Originally the Judaizing Christians were the ones who had the letters of the Disciples. The Catholics got their scriptures from the Judaizing Christians and proceeded to alter them to make them acceptable to the Pagans.

Just to be clear, this forum is not connected with Catholicism, and Catholic doctrine is not the authority here. The standard for discussion on this forum is Scripture alone.

When the rules state that opinion, tradition, and personal experience are not treated as equal to Scripture, that includes Catholic tradition as well as anyone else’s tradition. Everything must be tested by what is written in the Word of God.

Claims about doctrines being invented by a church institution do not determine truth. What matters is whether the teaching is found in Scripture.

For example, Scripture clearly speaks of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit together: Jesus commanded baptism “in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost” ~Matthew 28:19. At the baptism of Christ, “Jesus… went up straightway out of the water… the Spirit of God descending like a dove… and lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son” ~Matthew 3:16-17.

Likewise, the New Testament records believers gathering on the first day of the week: “And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them” ~Acts 20:7.

So the issue here is not what the Catholic Church claims, or what any other institution claims. The question is simply this: What do the Scriptures say?

That is the authority we operate under here. Any doctrine presented in discussion should be supported directly from Scripture and examined in its context.