12 Apostles

[Rose]

When exactly were the 12 apostles saved? Were they already saved when Jesus chose them? Can we say that Judas is a fake Christian but why did Jesus give him authority to cast out demons and to preach? Judas went to betray Jesus. In this case, isn't it proof that one can lose one's salvation?

 

[David]

When exactly were the 12 apostles saved? Were they already saved when Jesus chose them? Can we say that Judas is a fake Christian but why did Jesus give him authority to cast out demons and to preach? Judas went to betray Jesus. In this case, isn't it proof that one can lose one's salvation?

The twelve believed before the cross, but only in part. They believed He came from God. Peter declared, “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God” ~Matthew 16:16. Jesus responded that Peter did not come to this truth through human logic, but from the Father ~Matthew 16:17. That is genuine faith. But it was faith in Jesus Christ before they saw Him die on a cross.

They trusted Jesus but had yet to comprehend His plan.

Jesus plainly told them they didn’t understand what was going to happen when He died and rose again, and Scripture says it was purposely hidden from them ~Luke 18:31–34. That does not mean they were lost. Old Testament believers looked forward to God’s promise and believed Him even though they did not see it come to pass, and God credited that faith as righteousness ~Hebrews 11:13.

When they saw the resurrected Christ and the empty tomb, everything clicked into place. When the Spirit came upon them in power at Pentecost, He sealed and empowered what was already in place ~Acts 2, ~Ephesians 1:13. Salvation comes by faith. Power comes by the Spirit. Those are two different subjects.

Let’s talk about Judas now.

Judas was never born again. Jesus did not say Judas fell away. Jesus never said Judas fell away from salvation. Jesus said while Judas was right there walking with the apostles, “One of you is a devil” ~John 6:70. Later Jesus would pray about Judas, “None of them is lost, but the son of perdition” ~John 17:12. Judas is specifically called out as not included with the others.

Jesus never described Judas as someone who was saved and then lost. He identified Judas as unregenerate from the beginning. When Jesus speaks about false disciples who minister in His name, He says, “I never knew you” ~Matthew 7:23. That language fits Judas. He was never in a saving relationship with Christ, even while outwardly serving among the apostles.

Why was Judas able to preach and cast demons out?

Authority does not equal salvation. Jesus gave authority to all twelve apostles in Matthew 10. Authority can reside in a vessel whose heart is far from God. God used Balaam as a prophet while also condemning his heart ~Numbers 22–24. Caiaphas correctly prophesied while simultaneously scheming to murder Christ ~John 11:49–51. God can sovereignly use someone without approving of that person.

Judas shows us there are wolves in sheep’s clothing. A man can preach truth, operate in Christ’s authority, and still love money more than Jesus ~John 12:6.

And please understand Judas is not an example of losing your salvation.

Jesus said, “All that the Father giveth me shall come to me” and “I will in no wise cast out” any ~John 6:37. He also said those who follow Him will “never perish” ~John 10:28. If Judas was saved and then walked away from Jesus, Christ would have failed to do what the Father promised He never would. Scripture does not teach that. But here’s the razor that slices apart lies.

The apostles BELIEVED before the cross and were established AFTER it. Judas WALKED without belief. Ministry does not equal salvation. Spending time with Jesus is not the same as trusting Jesus. And if God saves you, He will keep you.

 

[Yesua888]

When exactly were the 12 apostles saved? Were they already saved when Jesus chose them? Can we say that Judas is a fake Christian but why did Jesus give him authority to cast out demons and to preach? Judas went to betray Jesus. In this case, isn't it proof that one can lose one's salvation?

Dear Rose,
It is so good to see you around : )
I appreciate your "raw" questioning ... it reminds me of when I belonged to my first Christian Forum (not too long ago) ... I asked similar questions.
My questions were not well received nor were they graciously responded to.
It was touch and go for me, whether to stay and learn something or to move on. I wondered whether it was me or whether the people on the forum were just very mean?
I stayed on, and prayed to God to guide my decision ...
Soon moderators private messaged me, and explained how the large forum operated and housed many denominations etc.
Then I joined another Christian Forum ... soon I was invited to this Wonderful Forum, where Truth is the Focus, no matter how "inconvenient" or "uncomfortable" hearing it is : )
I am ready and willing to be a sponge, to soak up everything Jesus, everything Truth of Gospel.
My prayers to God, to teach and guide me, to let me see my flaws, as well as others, to understand them (loved ones, friends, the world), and to ditch ego and judgement, have been answered.
This is the place that is teaching me so much, where I feel I belong, and where I feel the presence of God/Holy Spirit.
The people here, doing God's Work, are authentic, wise, kind, loving and Godly.
This is a Wonderfully Safe Place, if you are here to learn, are willing to listen, put the ego aside and participate with a good heart : ) Blessings Linda

 

[Rose]

Dear Rose,
It is so good to see you around : )
I appreciate your "raw" questioning ... it reminds me of when I belonged to my first Christian Forum (not too long ago) ... I asked similar questions.
My questions were not well received nor were they graciously responded to.
It was touch and go for me, whether to stay and learn something or to move on. I wondered whether it was me or whether the people on the forum were just very mean?
I stayed on, and prayed to God to guide my decision ...
Soon moderators private messaged me, and explained how the large forum operated and housed many denominations etc.
Then I joined another Christian Forum ... soon I was invited to this Wonderful Forum, where Truth is the Focus, no matter how "inconvenient" or "uncomfortable" hearing it is : )
I am ready and willing to be a sponge, to soak up everything Jesus, everything Truth of Gospel.
My prayers to God, to teach and guide me, to let me see my flaws, as well as others, to understand them (loved ones, friends, the world), and to ditch ego and judgement, have been answered.
This is the place that is teaching me so much, where I feel I belong, and where I feel the presence of God/Holy Spirit.
The people here, doing God's Work, are authentic, wise, kind, loving and Godly.
This is a Wonderfully Safe Place, if you are here to learn, are willing to listen, put the ego aside and participate with a good heart : ) Blessings Linda

Thanks, Linda, for your kind words. Yes, I'm here to learn and am so glad to have found this forum. God bless you.

 

[bobinfaith]

The twelve believed before the cross, but only in part. They believed He came from God. Peter declared, “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God” ~Matthew 16:16. Jesus responded that Peter did not come to this truth through human logic, but from the Father ~Matthew 16:17. That is genuine faith. But it was faith in Jesus Christ before they saw Him die on a cross. They trusted Jesus but had yet to comprehend His plan.
Judas was never born again. Jesus did not say Judas fell away. Jesus never said Judas fell away from salvation. Jesus said while Judas was right there walking with the apostles, “One of you is a devil” ~John 6:70. Later Jesus would pray about Judas, “None of them is lost, but the son of perdition” ~John 17:12. Judas is specifically called out as not included with the others.

Amen! I enjoyed reading this thread and posts. I have a three thoughts.

The 11 Apostles were from Galilee and identified as Jews but I don't believe they were practicing believers of God, whereas Judas was from Kerioth near Judea and ironically, his family were practicing believers of God in the Jewish faith.

Though Judas betrayed Jesus, we need to remember the rest of the disciples scattered when Jesus was arrested.

In a way Judas in the Gospels ministers to us as a reminder of our personal relationship and commitment with Christ. Are we in it for eternity?

God bless everyone.

Bob

 

[David]

Though Judas betrayed Jesus, we need to remember the rest of the disciples scattered when Jesus was arrested.

In a way Judas in the Gospels ministers to us as a reminder of our personal relationship and commitment with Christ. Are we in it for eternity?

It’s true the others fled when Jesus was arrested, “Then all the disciples forsook him, and fled” ~Matthew 26:56. But Scripture shows a difference between their fear and Judas’s unbelief. Jesus said of Judas, “one of you is a devil” ~John 6:70, while He prayed for the others that their faith would not fail ~Luke 22:31-32.

So the warning isn’t just about level of commitment, but about whether faith is real at all. Judas walked with Jesus outwardly yet never believed, which is why we are told, “Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith” ~2 Corinthians 13:5.